Why Do Atheists Ridicule Christianity?

“RELIGION SHOULD BE TREATED WITH RIDICULE, HATRED AND CONTEMPT”

Atheism, or “antitheism,” which was once considered taboo in America, has become mainstream in today’s society; books like Christopher Hitchens’s God Is Not GreatRichard Dawkins’s The God Delusion, and Sam Harris’s The End of Faith have all become New York Times  bestsellers.

Faith-bashing films, such as Bill Maher’s Religulous and Ricky Gervais’s The Invention of Lying have done well at the box office. The left never misses an opportunity to ridicule Christianity, or the latest errant statements or behavior from groups who claim to speak or act in the name of Christianity; yet many of them are quick to (angrily) point out that Islamic Extremists don’t represent Islam as a whole. Why the hypocrisy? I suspect it’s “my enemy’s enemy is my friend.”

Why the anger, ridicule, and hypocrisy? Hatred of something they can never disprove exists? Fear of being caught in an “oops” moment in the end? Second thoughts? Guilt? All of the above?

We also have passive-aggressive atheists, many of whom refer to themselves as “agnostic” — due to their lack of courage in coming out of the atheist closet. These people are forever on the lookout for examples” o “non-Christian” behavior by Christians. Once they think they’ve struck pay dirt, they smile derisively, make flippant comments, or mumble under their breath — as opposed to going all Bill Maher on the nearest Christian(s). 

My faith teaches me not to judge others; God will handle that. (Don’t misconstrue this to mean that I don’t criticize the hypocrisy, lies or political beliefs of others; that I do with gusto — whenever possible.) However, there are two aspects of atheism that have always puzzled me: the desperate need to ridicule, deride, or fear Christians and their faith — and the outright anger and hatred that many atheists display; the Bill Mahers of the world.

Well-known atheist Christopher Hitchens, for example, says that religion “should be treated with ridicule, hatred, and contempt.” Hitchens is quick to point out of course that Christians themselves should not be treated this way; it’s Christianity he hates. (which is akin to “supporting the troops” — but not the war.) Hitchens leaves no room for doubt as to his bitter contempt:

“It is entirely appropriate to ridicule absurd ideas rather than to treat them as serious and give them respect. Only serious ideas based on reason and evidence are worthy of intellectual respect. The ideas that we critique and ridicule have historically led to or facilitated war, genocide, and ethnic cleansing. They have enslaved millions, impeded medical and scientific research and are now draining vast sums of taxpayer dollars to propagate more of these ridiculous ideas.

These ideas have resulted in untold amounts of violence, death, torture, and suffering as well as the profound intimidation and physical molestation of our young. Ridicule and even sneering condescension are about the mildest critical reactions that we can have for the enormity of the mind-boggling injustices perpetrated in their name. I can readily empathize with those of us who consider the behaviors prompted by these dogma to be illegal and criminal.”

Greg Epstein, “Humanist chaplain” at Harvard University, and author of Good Without God: What a Million Nonreligious People Do Believe, has a different view of the role atheism and its believers should play in society. He describes the “New Atheists,” (Hitchens, Dawkins & Co.) as “atheist fundamentalists,” to whom he imparts “mindlessness and hypocrisy” for their ridicule and derision of Christianity.

Epstein believes that atheists have allowed themselves to become defined by what they don’t believe. “Humanists,” as he refers to atheists, would be better served by respectful coexistence with believers. Mutual acceptance of the beliefs and conviction of others –or the lack thereof — allows for common ground on issues of shared concern, he says.

In an apparent concession to the New Atheists, Epstein has somewhat hedged lately: What I’m more concerned about,” he says, “are religious people who’d be fine with ‘Humanism,’ and are interested in working as equals with me. We’re not here to erase you — we’re here to embrace you,” claims Epstein.

Really? Hmm…haven’t run across much “embracing” of Christianity by atheists.

 

Excuse my skepticism, but the Bill Mahers and Christopher Hitchenses of the world are much more vocal — and prevalent, as well. 

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Categories: Atheism, Christianity, Progressives, Religion

320 replies

  1. I have an fb friend who is married to one of my distant relatives. He is a proud atheist and progressive and full of vile hatred and mockery of Christians in particuler. So-called Christians have killed many in the past that it true (though one would/should say that wasn’t very Christian of them) but nothing compares to the vast rivers of slaughter committed by the cultures and countries who were avidly atheist and disavowed religion (China, Soviet Union, N. Korea, one might even include the Nazi’s who basically invented their own religion complete with Christ-like figure). He can never answer that one.

    Not all atheists are hostile and hateful people, but a good many of them are. Especially towards Christians. We are taught in the Bible that true Christians will be reviled and persecuted for what they believe and we should not be surprised when the world treats us so.

      • So true. But even Paul and the other`s ran for a time.

      • i’m sorry but i am a proud atheist and have never met one atheist that is hostile to religion. maybe if we joke around each other but that is not the point. i separated myself from religion because of all the hatred i experienced from the church as a christian. i am what most religions hate. hell, it seems like ever week a catholic tells me i am going to hell for being left handed. even through i am just 14 due to how different from the ideal image that the church gives on humanity i am pointed out. people tell me that i need to convert to Christianity or i will be banished to earth during the rapture, even though i am told this all the time i stay true to my beliefs and so do my fellow atheists. we are sought out and demonized by the general public but we stay true to our beliefs even though we could join the church and end all ridicule we chose to stick with our beliefs. just because we don’t see the point in having a god or higher power doesnt mean we are any different from you.

    • And I’ll add that standing for morals and values and believing there are such things as “truth” just drives some people crazy.

    • “true Christians” will be reviled and persecuted” Correct, by religions people, by non=religious people and by governments. Even by the church itself.

    • WELL I GUESS I’M TRUE CHRISTIAN! AND DARN PROUD OF IT!
      I feel most aitheists feel very convicted when around a true Christrian, and that makes them angry, to find out that we really caring people and are not as judgemental as they, or the media make us out to be.

      • Convicted? Convicted of what, atheism isn’t a crime. Atheism is only the belief that there is no god. If you are free to say there is a god isn’t it fair to allow others to say there isn’t. Your comment discriminates against nonchristians. How can any kind of discrimination ever be right?

    • Christianity is one of the most popular religions in the world. To say christianity is reviled is like saying the rich are discriminated against by the government. Your not helping your cause by stating something untrue and labeling it fact.

    • If you actually read your high school history books you’ll realize that the main focus of those atrocities was the discontent with the government/economy/standards of living not the nonreligious aspects. In other words what they did was wrong/evil but they just happened to be atheist. It was NOT that they were atheists and that is what made them evil (most were ordinary people just following orders, not evil people doing it for fun). Whereas the many (many) religous ‘purges’ throughout the centuries have been exactly what it sounds like religous it was started by religous people specifically because of religion.

      below is a (over)simplification of how Hitler came to power. If you want to know more or see the facts for yourself you should research it on your own and not just accept what someone you don’t know and can’t see tells you. That is the scientific method at work you can make observations and form opinions (hypotheses) then test them and find unbiased (assuming your being honest) facts and test the hypotheses of others.
      Hitler says: Join my cause and I’ll bring Germay into an age of prosperity.
      The desperate/poverty-stricken German people say: Your going to allow our families to get food, pay the bills, etc. We’ll do anything you want!
      Hitler says: Part of what that entails is too ‘remove’ (he never says kill in a speech) some groups that we don’t like from our country.
      The desperate/poverty-stricken German people say:Hurray! We’re not going to be poor anymore.

      If it had been more beneficial to him Hitler would have chosen to be christian. Atheism was just a tool to him, had he tried this a few centuries earlier it would have been the christians he would be trying to appeal to.

      I am an atheist and I in no way shape or form support killing, crime, or even insults and name-calling. Everyone in my family is religous (catholic and jewish) and I do not hold that against or wish harm to them. No individual or group should be judged by the actions of others associated with or only representing part of that person or group.

      My apologies for any grammar issues or lack ‘fluidity’ (or ‘flow’) of the writing.

      • I agree that we should respect everyones beliefs and not discriminate against anybody because of it

      • Hitler was Christian (Roman Catholic):

        “The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and co-operation. It will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life.” ~ Hitler

        “The National Government regards the two Christian confessions (i.e. Catholicism and Protestantism) as factors essential to the soul of the German people. … We hold the spiritual forces of Christianity to be indispensable elements in the moral uplift of most of the German people.” ~ Hitler again

        “What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and the reproduction of our race…so that our people may mature for the fulfillment of the mission allotted it by the creator of the universe…Peoples that bastardize themselves, or let themselves be bastardized, sin against the will of eternal Providence.” ~ And one more time.. Hitler.

      • this is very true but hitler was raised up as a roman catholic and just posed as an atheist to bring the public’s attention to him. he said the jews are evil and swine that should be slaughtered. i agree with all you are putting out there, more people like us appear everyday saying hey so what if they are different we are all equal male, female, straight, gay, atheist, christian, we should not discriminate on other people because something is different with them. all beings are equal no matter what is said

    • Atheist here… Just wanted to comment on this quick. Just wanted to clarify something on a few of the mistakes made on the above statement.

      Though no one could argue that Stalin is an atheist at no point did he actually do any evil in the name of atheism. In China, Taoism and Buddhism are the main religions. They are not based around following any god, but living the best way they can: a life path for them to follow. North Korea’s god is their leader.

      The Nazi statement is particularly wrong: Hitler was not an atheist. Not a Christian, but certainly not an atheist-in his book Mein Kampf, he states that he believes he is doing God’s work. The words ‘God With Us’ was printed in German on every belt buckle for every soldier in the Nazi army.

    • Dave, you’ve made two separate logical errors (well…maybe one-and-a-half).

      You’ve almost asserted a “no true Scotsman” argument. You didn’t, because I assume you know that it’s a logical fallacy. So, there’s half an error for trying to sneak it in there even if it is a bogus argument.

      And then you’ve trotted out one of my favorites: post hoc ergo propter hoc.

      Atheism was a trait shared by China, the USSR and N. Korea (we’re going to leave the Nazis out of this so I don’t risk a Godwin plus it’s heavily disputed exactly where they stood religiously, both side have good evidence to include them on the other team). These three were all countries in Asia.

      Do we conclude that those three countries with land in Asia are all brutal oppressors and their Asian-ness somehow was related to their monstrous behavior? Do we try to imply that other Asian nations are also bad because of their continental identiry? No! That’s silly!

      All three countries were Communist and had to be ruled by entrenched authoritarian regimes because Communism doesn’t mix really well with liberty. If anything, their atheism is a *result* of their authoritarian brutality and not a cause. Authoritarians don’t like competition in dictating to people how they should live their lives. You can’t have absolute loyalty to the Communist party if you’re also loyal to any organized mythology that excercises its own authoritarianism.

      Your three evil countries shared atheism but they didn’t do the evil they did in the name of atheism.

      On the other hand, the Crusades were directed by the pope with the express reason of reestablishing christianity as the dominant religion in the “holy land”. Their evil was organized in the name of Christ.

      So, before you go off to Google “post hoc ergo propter hoc”, know that I am an atheist but I am not a lefty. I’m pro-gun, pro-military and I think taxes should be kept low. I have voted for a Democrat once…ever…and that’s because the Republican had an aggressively religious agenda and said that atheists should be rounded up and kicked out of the state. Atheist != Left.

    • There are many hole’s in what you just said… there are actually a handful of athist that are hosile/angry enough to think that it is actually ok to go about killing the innocent all because they don’t believe in the same view’s that they do.

      I’m pretty sure that if you walk up to any christian on the street or walk into a church and mention that you don’t like god and bad mouth relgion, they will flip sh!t and be ready tp fight you because you just stepped all over there “beliefs”. In fact most athiest’s in the world know more about religion then the people who actually believe and follow these “beliefs”.

      Most of all the things wrong in this world involve religion in one way or another. and by the people who follow and/or run these religions. The magority of the athiests of the world try to point out the idea that we dont need religion to be good people and treat each other like we should.

      Leaders like John Lennon are the people i speak of, someone who tried to show the world god was like santa clause for adults. Something made up to get people to be nice to eachother, be good and do whats right. All things you don’t need a old book filled with fables to do.

    • EXCUSE ME! IF YOU CAN DO BETTER THAN MAYBE YOU SHOULD TRY! UNTIL THEN GOD IS NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, BUT THAT ALL MIGHT BELIEVE ON HIS NAME-JESUS. Repent & be baptized! Jesus said, “I am God there is none besides me.” “I am the Way, the Truth & the Life. No man comes to the Father except by me.” “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” “As many as received Him to them He gave the power to become the sons of God the Father even to those who believe on His name.” Jesus’ healing ministry began with adult baptism.
      A New Agenda: We the people need no gas & no electric to have a man child with the spouses of our youth around the world. We shall build homes without electric, without gas, without roofs that exceed 7 & 1/2 feet, & with incinerators to burn garbage, burn dung, burn urine, & burn blood rags so that the entire sisterhood has a man child with the husbands of their youth.
      TAKE MY CONFESSION WITH YOU. I have smoked cigars for 11 years & have no lungs, liver & kidneys at 44 years old. I continue to live through the Lord Jesus Christ as I received the Holy Spirit at 4 years old & was baptized as an adult in 1997. I continue to read my Bible & now use burned dung, urine, blood rags & tobacco butts to make meat offerings to eat. The Old Testament says that burned dung, urine, & blood rags were a part of the laws of Moses. Yes, it was in 2001 while I was driving to Florida that I was talking to the saints in heaven & Isaiah said, “You know that 70 years from now the sun will be dimmed in the sky” Oh, I said, “I don’t know.” I went back over the Old Testament & it said, “The sun shall be dimmed in the sky” & “I shall make them eat the grass of the field.” & “all these things shall come to pass” before the Lord Jesus Christ returns.
      4 years ago I was stamping my feet at work over the excessive electric usage & complaining that I didn’t have a husband & children to God the Father. I prayed, kneeling at my bed as to adopting children. Then while I was at work I adopted over 500 children in Swahili (I was born with a spot-was a reject in Hebrew) to find out what day it was. I had been taught prophesy at Wheaton Evangelical Free Church in 1979 & 1980. We went back & forth in time while Governor Blagovich was verifying. We came up with 17 years of darkened sun before July 29, 2081.
      July 29, 2081-the rapture of believers in Christ Jesus-all those who received the Holy Spirit-at the trumpet sound in heaven-1st the dead & then the living ascended to heaven in a twinkling of an eye
      July 29, 2081-2088-the Great Tribulation-God’s wrath is poured out on the earth, Judgment of the Believers in Christ Jesus & the Marriage Supper of the Lamb in heaven
      2088-3057-the Reign of Christ Jesus-(the Bible stated “1000 years” & in actuality it was 969 years)
      3057-3059-the Devil is loosed out of the pit –(the Bible stated “a time & a half” & in actuality it was 1 & three fourths years)-the battle of Armageddon-the nations are drawn together for the last battle in the Valley of Megiddo-the Lord Jesus comes down of a white horse with the words, “King of Kings, Lord of Lords” written on His thigh & a sword comes out of His mouth to destroy all who are in the battle. The bible says that the blood runs a “horses’ bridle high” & birds feed on the bodies.
      3059-the old heavens & the old earth pass away & the new heavens & new earth are created by the Lord Jesus Christ-at this point in time the Lord Jesus says, “Depart from me I never knew you.” to all who died in the battle of Armageddon, to those who took the mark of the beast in their right hand or forehead during the tribulation, to all who died during our time without receiving the Holy Spirit, & to all those who died during the flood of Noah’s day in wickedness. Jesus says, “In this world you shall have trouble, but I have overcome the world.”
      Jesus says, “If we confess our sins He is faithful & just to forgive us our sins & to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

    • But Christians actually killed people in the name of god, and they did it because they perceived doing it to be just. The atheists that ruled over regimes such as Stalin and currently Kim Jong-il killed people in the name of power. Having no diety isn’t what caused to massacres in these cases, it was lust for power. however in the case of the crusades, a HOLY war, the bloodshed was directly caused by having a deity.

      Oh, and don’t give me that shit about Christians being persecuted by atheists, I think we all know who’s been doing the persecuting for the last 1,500 years.

      • People have been killed in the name of communism , socialism, feminism, and democracy. Many more than were killed in the name of religion. I certainly know who’s been doing the persecuting for the last two centuries.

    • But Christians aren’t hostile towards atheists? Not to mention anything that doesn’t sync with their beliefs. The Christian community is just as accountable, and put others down for not believing in “God.” I’ve literally been told that I’m wrong for not believing. The idea of the Christianity isn’t what is bothersome. It’s the people that follow it. Many of these “Christians” are just as bad or worse than the people that have other personal beliefs. Not to mention how greedy the churches can be. My half sister attends a Baptist church regularly, and I’ve gone with her once because she really wanted me to go. They were REALLY pushing tithing just so they could buy new plasma screens for the church. That’s just one example, but there’s countless other ones. This article, while making a valid point, fails to address the flaws with the people that make up Christianity. The church is very corrupt many times. Maybe I didn’t articulate what I meant to say very clearly just now, but I think you get the gist of it.

    • You bring up China, Soviet Union, N. Korea and the Nazi’s in your argument as being avidly atheist yet it is simply not true. Each one of them, except maybe North Korea, have strong Christian ties, and even if they hadn’t it does not prove any sort of correlation between atheism and genocide, which is what you’re hinting at. You are referring to totalitarian countries which are ran by a small majority which produce ‘vast rivers of slaughter’ not because they are atheist but because they wish to stay in power. What about the wars that have been waged purely on the argument that Christianity is right and all other religions wrong? How many people have died because of their belief of Catholicism over Protestantism, or vice versa… What about the Crusades? What about the Salem witch-hunts? These are things not just done by Christians, but done in the name of Christianity. How can such goodly Christian people feel vindicated by their bible for not only shipping half of Africa from their country and banishing them to enforced slavery, but still feel prejudices for them today? How can people who follow the belief that everyone is equal still feel justified discriminating against whole races, whole sexes, whole other, ‘lesser’ religions? I will tell you good sir, it is because that is in those people’s nature. It is not down to their religion. You seem to over-simplify the world into Christian and not Christian

      Just because it specifies it (like, you know, virtually every other religion) morals, values and truth are not restricted to Christianity. Atheists can be better examples of the kind of ‘good person’ outlined in the bible, than some devout Christians, who seem to have a selective awareness of the teachings in their holy book. You do not need a sermon to know the difference between right and wrong.

      This may just be because I’m English and we generally aren’t that passionate over religion but I have also found not a single person who is hostile and hateful towards Christians, atheist or otherwise. For the record, I am not atheist, nor am I Christian, I am just someone who puts his faith squarely in knowing every side of an argument and avoiding the kind of brash, one-sidedness that you’ve displayed.

    • LISTEN GUYS AND GIRLS ATHEIST BELIVE WHAT THEY BELIVE BUT IN THE END IT WONT MATTER SO GET A JOB GET A LIFE AND STOP MAKING STUPID ARGUEMENTS WHEN U COULD BE DOING SOMTHIN BETTER SO ALL OF YOU SHUT UP

    • You are making a mistake. No Atheist has ever committed genocide, ethnic cleasing in sense that they want to spread atheism. Stalin and other heinous people who were atheist never killed to spread atheism or tortured others because they were not nonbelievers but Abrahamic religions primarily Christianity and Islam have tortured people because they were nonbeliever, just look at history (Crusade, Baltic Conflicts)…. So please don’t blame atheism as whole for some evil person actions. Looking at now I hope you realize Christianity or religion as a whole has killed millions of people in name of god than atheism has in disdain, hatred, or any emotion of god or any other motive!

    • So true. I try to remind my Christian brothers that we are hated by most of the world but we are loved by our Heavenly Father and that is so much more important.

  2. Atheists are so intelligent that they prefer the hole to the doughnut.

    • i love my donuts.and i am an atheist. am i the odd man out? no, everyone is different and therefore has there own opinions so no matter our religion dont round us off and say this group is like this. no one generalization is right

  3. I never understood it. myself. I believe in God, atheists don’t. That should be the end of it. Why spend all that time and effort on someone else’s beliefs? It’s not like you’re going to change their minds and vice versa. Live and let live.

    • I am an atheist and I feel the same way. It’s nice to find some common ground.

      • Because, depending on your religion, for example, when your Catholic, you are CALLED to go out and spread the news, and to not necessarily CHANGE OTHER’S MINDS but to let them know as much information as possible so that they may make the best decision possible concerning their faith.

    • a belief is a belief, if your belief is that there is no god or that there is one or multiple gods, its your own opinion. i say this a lot; don’t ridicule someones opinion, it make no difference it is there personal thoughts and through the ability of free will a thing that everyone (nearly, except some psychopaths) thinks everyone else has, you can think what you want. most of what i just said is badly written :( ah well, you get the point i hope.

    • atheist here and finally some people that have the same ideal.

  4. However, there are two aspects of atheism that have always puzzled me: the need to ridicule, deride, or even fear Christians and their faith, and the anger and hatred that many atheists display

    Consider the spiritual base of denying that there is a God, His Son and the Holy Spirit and then ask yourself where this is originates. We have to actively seek salvation in God, but God’s spiritual opponent actively recruits.

    • The need to ridicule and hate is not an aspect of atheism rather it is an aspect of the individual. Most atheists are just like most christians everyone has a topic that holds a deep meaning to them, a topic with which it is either agreement or argument. Can you honestly say you have have never insulted atheism or an other religion? Personally I take insult to your assumption that all atheists are argumentative although I can see how you might get that impression. The problem is the argumentative type tends to be the most vocal lust because you haven’t met talk to any level headed atheists does not mean they don’t exist it just means they don’t see a reason to talk to you neutrality is a common theme on religous issues for those who are not argumentative (I feel like a broken record ‘argumentative this’ ‘argumentative that’).I am an atheist and I like to think I am level headed and neutral.

      My apoligies for any insult real, implied, or percieved I may have given in this post.

      • I completely agree with your comment.
        As the author extracts examples of extreme statements made by atheists he undermines his argument that atheists select extreme (‘silly’) comments made by christians. Where he states “the left never seems to miss an opportunity to point out the latest goofy statements or antics by groups purporting to speak or act in the name of Christianity”, he does the exact same.

        The article is a complete contradiction in terms.

  5. The opposite of a frothing at the mouth Bible thumper is not an equally frothing at the mouth atheist. It is the gentle agnostic that is willing to listen to anyone, but ultimately could care less if God exists or not. You have to remember that atheists and Christians are virtually identical, neither believes in Allah, or Thor, or Ra, or Zeus, or a million other deities that time and history forgot, atheists just go one more step and dump one more God into the dustbin. No reason to fight over such petty differences.

    • Excuse our skepticism, not many “gentle agnostics” who embrace Christians come to mind. We’re much more used to the derisive type. Or…the kind who hide behind a ridiculous story and throw rocks at Christianity from the sidelines.

      “CHRISTIAN Group Declares: World Will End May 21st 2011″

      “Muslims attacked the World Trade Center”

      Perhaps we should’ve just behaved like the ladies on The View and stormed off the blog.

      “You have to remember that atheists and Christians are virtually identical.”

      “No reason to fight over such petty differences.”

      Some us view eternal salvation as a bit more than “petty.”

      • “Excuse our skepticism, there aren’t a lot of “gentle agnostics” in the news. ”

        There aren’t alot of gentle Christians on the news either. Just because Fred Phelps is on the news all the time does not mean he is a representative specimen of Christianity. The vast majority of Christians, agnostics, and atheists, simply live their life and mind their own business. In practice, ordinary church going Christians and atheists/agnostics live virtually identical lives in this country. Religion or lack thereof seems to have little effect on peoples day to day conduct.

      • Hmm…the only author on the blog who is an avowed atheist– er, “gentle agnostic” writes a post ridiculing a “Christian group” who holds a loony belief. He then wants us to believe, of course, that he in no way intended to insult Christians in general.

        I always wondered why those who commit crimes in the name of Allah often claim they’re innocent when caught. If they believed in their cause strongly enough to murder innocent people in the name of it, one would think they would have the backbone to man up and admit it. Odd.

      • Nobody else but you thought that post was offensive, it is all in your head. I hope you did not make this whole post as a response to mine, I am flattered, but I assure you it did not warrant so much effort on your part.

        Also… Did you just compare me to a Muslim terrorist? Lulzies. I think there is only one proper response to this:

      • As you’ve been told several times, get over yourself Zazu. I read an article on Christopher Hitchens’ medical condition last night and the idea for the post occurred to me; I get up this morning to write…and there you are. Divine intervention perhaps?

        We’ll all pretend that the only atheist on the blog wrote a post entitled “Christian Group Declares World Will End” with absolutely no ulterior motive. Uh huh, yup we will.

        As has been the case multiple times in the past, this is my last comment on yet another absurd discussion with you. Have at it, perhaps others will pick up the ball. Maybe you’ll be honest with the readers. Probably not.

      • As always you make baseless attacks, followed by ridiculous accusations, followed by an “I am not playing with you anymore” comment. It seems to bring you some kind of weird satisfaction, so I am as always happy to oblige. Still, you really did not have to spend so much effort replying to my post, I already know you care Rat.

      • Baseless attacks…lol. It’s what we racists do. You’re a hypocrite and you know it. That’s good enough for me.

      • I am an atheist and I have no problem with religion as long as it doesn’t take away from the rights of others. If it makes you happy to believe there is a higher power then continue believing, but your view of what ‘eternal salvation’ does not fit with my views of ther world. To me death is always a sad thing it is the complete destruction of the soul (death of the brain) there is no heaven or hell, try to see it from my point of view in a world where you only have a short amount of time to exist why waste it arguing and trying to force your beliefs on others it only makes people upset and that doesn’t help anybody.
        you let me live how I want and I’ll let you live how you want. The world is a sad place why make it more sad? I know you think your saving people from an eternity of torture but the whole idea of ‘fighting’ to make someone believe only further alienates them. If you want to convert someone try to do it with some kindness rather than the harsh convert or be tortured forever routine your currently using if your right you’ve converted more people and made friends along the way, if I’m right you and the converts or attempted converts have made friends and had a more satifying life.

    • I know, I know. . . I said I wouldn’t comment anymore but I just had to. I’ll play nice. I just had to cut in and say that as a Christain I found nothing Zazu said objectionable. As usual, Rat takes offense to anyone that doesn’t toe the line. I found this quote from Zazu very well stated:
      “In practice, ordinary church going Christians and atheists/agnostics live virtually identical lives in this country. Religion or lack thereof seems to have little effect on peoples day to day conduct.” This spot-on comment was followed by Rat saying, Hmm…the only author on the blog who is an avowed atheist– er, “gentle agnostic” writes a post ridiculing a “Christian group” who holds a loony belief. He then wants us to believe, of course, that he in no way intended to insult Christians in general.”

      Of course, the funny thing is that Zazu was in no way insulting Christians. I’ll give Rat the benefit of the doubt and assume he didn’t catch that Zazu was making an analogy between poorly behaved “Christian groups” (the Phelps’ of the world) that seem to garner headlines and poorly behaved atheists that use a proverbial sledgehammer to make their point and also get the headlines.

      In the end, Zazu continues to fight here on an island with only the faintest hope that any of the regular contributors will at least throw him a bone and say, “hey Zazu, I don’t necessarily agree with you all of the time but in this instance you are correct and Rat is wrong.” The analogy of Zazu to a Muslim terrorist was downright odd and someone should have gently chided the Rat.

      • Well, he’s got one stalker fan. :-D Unfortunately, I’m not on the “Right” side.

      • Everybody has one pet issue that seems to throw them into a blind rage, it could be guns, or Israel/Palestine, or unions, or religion. Usually this anger masks an insecurity about ones beliefs resulting in an angry unwillingness to have these beliefs challenged.

        The Rat’s response showed just that, but believers that are secure in their faith do not respond like that. Look at Regalo Di Spine’s threads if you want to see someone serious about his religion, and is willing to have his beliefs challenged.

      • Thanks for the mention, Zazu. However, I imagine that just like me, E the Wise hasn’t had the opportunity to read all of the past interactions between you and The Rat.

        In an attempt to be as objective as possible, from my limited observations of the few exchanges I have read between the two of you, it seems the most recent debate may have less to do with beliefs and possibly tilts a little more towards the results of inadequate interpersonal communications.

        As an aside, I’m not sure that I have expounded upon whether or not I conform to a specific religion. Although I appreciate your analysis of my approach, I think you might be surprised if I were to explain my actual beliefs.

    • I agree 99% but the way you say it so casual and indelicate is likely to offend some as seen with rat

  6. Enjoyed your post. Been there, done that.
    When a person states he is a atheist, he has informed you of his religion. A belief there is no god or gods. Since his belief is no god, he will feel the need to shore up his belief by attacking those who believe in god, especially who feel the need to present their belief to him. Thus they attack. The attack is their attempted to convert you to their belief. Since the atheist belief system is supposedly based on rational thought, logic and enlightenment whereas a Christian’s belief system is based on faith, it is only natural to attack Christians as irrational and mythologist. They must attack to muster mental support for their belief.
    When I was a child, one of the neighboring farmers worked his farm on Sundays and didn’t go to church though his wife took his children with her to church. I was puzzled about this and ask my father about him. My father said the neighbor didn’t care if there was a god or not. The farmer had no use for one. He didn’t call himself an atheist.
    Now your article shows that we have the catholic atheist and perhaps a protestant branch, humanist. Of course you must include those who believe men are gods and a supreme being doesn’t exist. Perhaps a Morman branch?

    • “Perhaps a Mormon branch?” Would you be referring to The Church Of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints? I assure you sir our beliefs center on God the Almighty, His son Jesus Christ, His atoning sacrifice made for all (including agnostics & atheists) and a belief in a modern day prophet. A prophet is not worshiped no more than one would worship Jeremiah or Isaiah, he is simply chosen by God and respected. I pray this has edified you.

      • No offense intended. I’ve study the Book of Mormon and the Pearl of Great Price. I’ve studied with Mormons. I first wrote Seventh Day Adventist then I thought Mormon might be better.

      • Ah but a different almighty it is, a different Jesus, and a different atonement it is. Why point this out? Paul said it himself. If someone tries to teach you a different Jesus, a different spirit, and a different gospel, then get the heck outta there.

        Mormonism is truth by inspiration rather than truth by verification. It is truly following your heart for truth, despite the Bible saying your heart will deceive you above all things. Deception comes in attractive packages.

    • I shouldn’t say this, but I will. At the heart of Mormonism is the lie of the serpent in the garden. That we can become as gods.

    • See a free book that discusses and proves not only that Christian faith makes perfectly good sense, but also that most unbelievers are performatively self-contradictory each time they just open their mouth:
      http://www.scribd.com/doc/56556977/Biblical-Christianity-is-Reasonable

      It also explains why “debates” with atheists are mostly a total waste of time (as are debates with irrational Christians!). Atheists demand one standard for themselves and another for those who believe.

      Also see a free book that explains why Christianity has such a bad name, because of its so-called Christian advocates, who are as insane as the unbelievers are, and worse. With “friends” like these, Christianity needs no enemies:
      http://www.scribd.com/doc/56557164/Religion-of-Experience

  7. Oh my, and it’s all so simple!
    A believes in God, Who teaches tolerance.
    B believes in no god and therefore is an instant totalitarian. HE decides!

    Both are unproven beliefs…so long as you can accept a self-generated cosmos. Of course, that’s another belief!

    • Tolerance is exactly the point. To my knowledge, nobody has posted an article on ConClub ridiculing atheists.

      I have good friends who are atheists, as well as family members whom I love. Intolerance of those who ridicule the faith of others should never be misconstrued as ridiculing their right to believe –or not believe — anything they choose; even when they lack the integrity to admit it.

  8. you guys are so oppressed i don’t know how you deal with it.. hey why don’t you pass another faith based law that oppresses people, like DOMA or DADT… you may be mocked, but when it comes down to it you guys have all the power… the fact that evolution is under discussion with your ‘theory’ of creation, which is based on nothing… nothing, is a testament to your lingering power

    • You do realise that many many Christians don’t take that story literally right? In any case, the Big Bang theory is actually more in favour of the existence of a god than less – the speed of the expansion of the universe needed to be so utterly accurate that if it was only a tiny tiny bit faster, everything would have exploded and if it was only slightly slower, everything would have collapsed. The probability of getting this constant just right simply by chance is the equivalent of the probability of shooting an arrow from Earth to hit a 10cm x 10cm target on the other side of the universe.
      Also, why can’t evolution and creation go hand-in-hand? It’s pretty easy to think that God was behind the whole process of evolution, if he was behind the geomorpholical processes which shaped this earth, isn’t it?
      I don’t blame you for saying these things though because they seem to be common views amongst a lot of atheists

      • If the idea of a multiverse is true then the whole “universe goes boom” scenario has already played out an infinite number of times and this universe is one of the infinite number of universes that didn’t and it is impossible for a universe like ours not to exist, and furthermore there are an infinite number of this universe and variations on it so some may have a ‘god’ while others don’t and some both have and do not have a ‘god’ in some sort of psuedoexistence. You see how confusing psuedoscience (note I said psuedo it is not based on any real science) can be.
        Trying to argue in favor of god with science is like trying to calculate the square root of a fish. Science cannot prove god because science isn’t out to prove anything, the idea of a god is to believe in something all-powerful without evidence. If it were proven to exist it would cease to be a god (a being of mysterious universe altering power) and become something that can be measured, understood, perhaps even duplicated if it is known how this being came to exist. Before you get the pitchforks and start trying to run me out of town for my blasphemous ideas think if you went back in time you could claim to be a god and none would be able to say anything different (unless you got labled a witch) because you would have strange ‘powers’ (they can make light appear from their strange cylinder it must be a godly weapon of amazing power and can even stop the strange focused beam of fire from burning they can be nothing but a god!) but of course we can make flashlights easily in our time so eventually they would have understood and stopped believing because they realize you are just a person and one day build flashlights of their own.

        Or to summarize this long confusing off-topic mess that I produced at 4am without going to sleep at all this night. “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic”.
        quote starts^ quote ends^
        the quote is by Arthur C. Clark

        I’m tired goodni…morning

      • “the idea of a god is to believe in something all-powerful without evidence…”

        That is incorrect. The discovery or existence of a fully functional flashlight or one of those old time mechanical wind up pocket watches would obviously point to a creator of that device. To insist that it ‘just happened’ would be ignorant and an obvious rejection of the truth that it was created and therefore it had a creator. In the same vein, the existence of Creation is the evidence of a Creator. To write off the amazingly complex biological and ecological systems as a great cosmic ‘accident’ is the same as denying that a far more simpler mechanical device didn’t have a creator but simply ‘happened’ accidently. The evidence of a God is not without evidence but instead we are surrounded by the evidence.

    • You do realise that many many Christians don’t take that story literally right? In any case, the Big Bang theory is actually more in favour of the existence of a god than less – the speed of the expansion of the universe needed to be so utterly accurate that if it was only a tiny tiny bit faster, everything would have exploded and if it was only slightly slower, everything would have collapsed. The probability of getting this constant just right simply by chance is the equivalent of the probability of shooting an arrow from Earth to hit a 10cm x 10cm target on the other side of the universe.
      Also, why can’t evolution and creation go hand-in-hand? It’s pretty easy to think that God was behind the whole process of evolution, if he was behind the geomorpholical processes which shaped this earth, isn’t it?
      I don’t blame you for saying these things though because they seem to be common views amongst a lot of atheists

  9. I’m not a Christian, but many of my family members are. I consider myself a live-and-let-live agnostic, willing to bow my head during a prayer before a meal and moderate my speech to not offend others. I dislike the way Christians are being treated in this country by people who consider themselves to be more rational and logical for not believing in God. I’ve never seen a Christian making fun of an atheist, although maybe that’s the difference between someone who has a moral compass and someone who doesn’t.

    I would love to see the modern Supreme Court address the issue of “separation of church and state” again to see if they can get it right this time. The original idea was that religious practice was to be free of government intervention, not that government had to divest itself of all religious symbols and sayings. Things have gotten so ridiculous that a small minority of atheists has the rest of the country running scared, to the point where “Merry Christmas” is replaced by “Happy Holidays” and “Easter Eggs” are called “Spring Spheres.” Just once I would love to see the judge tell the atheists that their case was without merit, that the cross had been there for 50 years so there was no reason to take it down, case dismissed. Maybe some day…

  10. My favorite take on all of this actually came from a Stephen King movie adaptation of the Stand. Terribly cheesy movie with hilarious acting and great quotes…

    “I don’t believe in God.”

    “That’s okay. He believes in you.”

    The way I see it even the largest brain on this planet is a mere speck on a speck on a speck compared to the sheer size and volume of the universe. For me (not quite the largest brain) to declare emphatically and without question that God does not exist – it just doesn’t seem like a logical statement given the fact that I know so little about oh, say, everything.

    I see an order to the universe in everything, one that I simply cannot fathom being an evolutionary process – I don’t doubt that evolution occurs, and is still occurring – and I don’t know how we got here other than what I have read in both the Bible and in science, but the truth is whether I believe that God exists or not doesn’t really matter. I see it like gravity and my subsequent belief therein – if I step off a 20 story building, I am going to meet my maker…, er – sorry – die.

    In space, there appears to be no gravity (because wow, you can float!); however upon closer examination we find that it’s the glue that holds the galaxy together.

    I believe. I believe emphatically that Jesus Christ was and is the Son of God – who he claimed to be. I believe God is bigger than we can ever understand or imagine. I believe that whether or not I believe it, it doesn’t matter. He believes in me in ways I cannot begin to contemplate, even with my vast quantity of gray matter. (Ahem… kidding on that last part in case you missed the sarcasm.)

    Willing God out of the equation is the same as willing gravity out of the equation. You can ignore it, deny it’s existence, deny it’s truth, but at the end of the day it’s still not the fall that gets you, it’s the sudden stop.

    But just to stir the pot, I will say that I have a lot of trouble believing in religion.

  11. It doesn’t help that Christianity has become wed to the Republican Party. If Christians were not so pro-war, so pro-military, they might get more respect. Whatever happened to “peace and love”? But I find the whole atheist vs Christian argument false. There are many, many spiritual people in this Country. Not all of them feel a need to join an organized religious group or feel obligated to follow a particular doctrine.

    • I don’t think Christians are wedded to the Republicans. As a independent, I lean towards the Republicans because they are less controlling and more liberal in allowing freedom.

      • I agree with awtv. The problem is that those who identify with the Left have abandoned religion wholesale, and have decided to make God into a poster rather than a Deity. When someone claims to be ‘spiritual’, it is just a lazy, mindless way of saying they want to believe in something but are too lazy to put in the work.

  12. I am a seeker of the divine or God, and it has made me become atheist. What you all don’t understand is that after Christianity arose in Rome, it was entirely political. The first christians were truly communist. When the knights took Jerusalem, they raped women and pillaged brutally all in the name of Christ. The list goes on and on just like the list of translations you would have to read to try and actually understand your holy book. I don’t bash Christians, but if we want to actually take everything from a common sense perspective, then it does make me angry when people subjugate for my indifference toward their religion and vice versa. I can give facts, but I wouldnt want to destroy someone’s paradigm. And I don’t want someone telling me I have an inferiority complex because I dont believe in their God. Why does it matter at this point in time? Just live and get over your hyperbolic persecution. I am persecuted where I live for not believing in Christ as the savior of humanity. I have morals, and I try not to be fickle when utilizing them. I have tried to find the truth. Things are alot more complex than they seem. I don’t need anyone judging me on the basis that All Atheists bash Christians. Oversimplified fallaciousness.

    • Andrew, you need to do more research. Christianity came with Christ and His apostles, not with Rome. It may have been institutionalized, but that means nothing in the big picture. In the end, as important as I find the Church in some ways, it’s between you and God, and no one else.

      Also, not all atheists bash Christians, just as not nearly all Christians (who actually practice) consider atheists products of the Devil. Also oversimplified fallaciousness. And a heap of rubbish. We evangelize. It’s part of the religion. We’re also told not to throw pearls to swine. It’s a waste of pearls and the pig will simply be annoyed.

  13. The one thing that makes me question the authority of Christainity. Is the interjection of “jeudeo”. If the Christ (Messiah) annointed one with oil from the Egyptian Nile crocadile is who he proclaimed to be. Why pick a Bronze Age cult in Judea to reveal himself? Why not to a more learned society? Say Greece, China or Rome?
    Some other questions: Why is there swine (pigs) available when Jesus was casting out demons. Doesn’t the “jew” have some kind of “law” against pigs? This little fable is suspect.
    Or the preposperous sayings: Love your neighbour (jew) as yourself—-IMPOSSIBLE
    Take know thought of the morrow—-IRRESPONSIBLE
    Bring the un-believers and slay them at my feet—-NOT VERY PEACE-LIKE
    Hate your father, mother, brother, sister and in-laws—–NOT IGNORE BUT HATE
    These are just some glaring defects with the “teaching” of Christainity. We can see these concepts are the writings of MEN who wish to control humanity.
    Charlemagne was a great “Christian”. He slayed thousands upon thousand just for minding their own business. The only business the peasents did not know was Charlemagne”s Christianity.
    Basically to be a Christian. You believe you’re born sick and commanded to be well. It’s been a great scam since it’s imigration from Sumer/Babylon/Egypt to Rome. Now you know what the MYSTERY RELIGION is.

    • Being a scripture studying christian has propelled me to wonder at the many acts and prohibitions commanded of the Israelite tribes and humanity at large. And after years of seeking understanding I have come to realize that I am not as smart as God and cannot explain much.
      But, I can tell you this, because of experience and not due to scholarship or any spectacular intellectual brilliance: When you ask for help and He steps in to take care of the problem, you will come to know a little bit of what He is. You will not be wise or all knowing and able to provide pointless answers to some knuckle head that feels the need denigrate your faith. But you will know that He cares about us. And about the knuckle head too. So remember, be nice to the knuckle head.

      • No! You have been IMPRISONED by those who want your money, time and SUBMISSION! Do you really think that a “preacher”, “priest”, “rabbi” or “inam” gives one flip about you and your family? Just look at the Vatican. Ensconced in gold and purple grandeaur. Then look at the nations they CONTROL. You will see untold numbers of the ‘faithful” living in utter filth and poverty.
        But you say, “the poor will always be with us”. This is utter rubbish. What makes one man or group of men with pointy hats and skullcaps the authority on the human condition.
        Why do they torture those who don’t see the earth as flat? Why do they condemn those who don’t SEE their invisible “god”?

        No my brother. Mankind has been manipulated by those who have agenda’s here on earth. And your SURRENDER to their schemes and scams is part of their POWER over you.
        I can’t believe in this day and age. People still wish to believe as the cults of the ancients. When you research and discover the real history of mankind. You will no longer wish to associate with the enemies of man.

      • As the son, grandson, and great-grandson of ministers of the gospel I can say without hesitation that the vast majority of those who have sacrificed a great amount to serve in roles of spiritual authority and help others do in fact care a great deal for you and your family. That is there job and they do it day in and day out with little praise and for little earthly reward.

      • Hey Mark bro’ “When you research and discover the real history of mankind.” Oops. Maybe you need to do a little more research. Out here when you make a statement we figure it should “hold water.” Check out to see what was the first nation to chose Christianity as its national religion. Might want to check on the oil think. First I’ve heard of croc oil, but I’ll check it too. Bronze age cult. Interesting. Jews are the only people to not to be assimilated into conquering groups. They have been active in this old world for 4,000 years. I don’t know but what people do you know of that are still in existence today from 2,000 BC? Despite the attempts to eradicate these people since 70 AD, they seem to have a resilience no other people have. Perhaps if you would just read the Bible as a book of history not religion, you would probably learn a lot about “real history.” Quickly now, what written languages older than Hebrew?

    • Hey Bro Mark. Checked that croc oil thing. Lordly I didn’t know croc’s had fat, but then there just aren’t many crocs out here. Just shows to go you that your never too old to learn.

      • Texas. Your strawman argument and lack of research has left you severely handicapped.
        The word Messiah means “annointed one”. The root of messiah is Messa. Which is derived from the ancient Egyptian religions that used the fat of the Nile crocadile TAIL to annoint their priest and kings.
        The royalty of England to this very day uses this same method in the coronation ceremonies. The annointing of oil of “christians” today. Is the same as it was in Egypt and Babylon and before that, Sumer.

        About the jew. Ah. the poor troddened down jew. Show me the WORD JEW in the first 10 books of the old testament. Better yet. Show me the WORD JEW in the 5 books of the torah. The jews of today are in no way connected to the so-called Hebrews of ancient history. The jews the christians worship today are Europeans that were displaced because of their backwards and superstitious religion and acts. Read thier Holy (Babylonian) Talmud or the works in the Kabbala and get back to me.
        All RELIGION came from Sumer. It progressed as the people imigrated. For over 10,000 years these religions spread around the earth. They may have different names, but they all have basically the same theme.

    • Um…Mark…a quick wiki check finds that the earliest religious text….came from Egypt, not Sumer.

      • And to follow up, religion was derived from myth…and myth is older than the written word….so again, not Sumer.

      • Wiki? Who directs the Wiki? Could it be the same ones who claim Egyptian slaves built the Great Pyramids of Giza? If it is. their not very credible.
        Why don’t you research Sir Austen Henry Layard. Who discovered tens of thousands of Sumerian clay tablets in the Assyrian city of Ninevah, about 250 miles from today’s Baghdad. These tablets are known to be buried around 2000BCE. But their stories of mankind’s existance travells tens of thousands of years before that.
        Ancient Rome,Egypt, Babylon and Assyria all started in Sumer. If you research the KINGS LIST you will understand humankind is much older than those who wish to control us would like us to believe.
        The Rossetta Stone alone proves the folly of Egyptian dominance of written lauguage.
        Good hunting. But be advised. Those with agenda’s will always seek to simplify your search. They dare not be allowed to oblige the slave species with the TRUE KNOWLEDGE.

      • Um…Mark….the Pyramid texts pre-date the Sumer tablets by 500 years, and further, animism pre-dates ALL religion and is found with all ancient peoples.

        Whatever your “slave species” is refering to, I have NO idea.

        Good luck with that.

      • Oh…I found it!

        Mark is a believer in the planet “Nibiru”!!!!

        KOOK ALERT!!!!!

      • neo I believe your right or he is off his medications. Any way bro Mark I like you just the way you are. Please never change and keep up the BS. If you would read the Bible, you might learn a little, not religion, just knowledge.

  14. It is very simple. Most atheists are fully aware of God, but for one reason or another, are angry at God or their misfortune, thus leading to resentment and rejection of God and Christianity. Which is why most atheists have such emotive and reactionary responses to religious debates. They are fully aware of God, but their anger leads to disillusionment and denial.

    • That is the best response I have read in this site I am a Believer of our Lord Jesus Christ. Its true that Most atheist choose not to believe in God because he doesn’t give me a car so sense he didn’t give me the car he doesn’t exist. When the prove is all around you the Lord will Judge you even though you don’t believe in him. Just because you don’t believe doesn’t mean you won’t be thrown into Hell.
      ~God Bless you all

  15. My God is not a catholic or Methodist or baptist or Lutheran or any of the other religions named by man or woman but you will find him in the hearts of many of those people. Most of whom,if they would take the time to study the intent of Jesus and his word, would come to learn the fallacies that organized religion has injected into their practices. My God has saved my bacon many times over the last 70 years through his teachings and through prayer and I am grateful.

  16. Christians are easy targets because they do not threaten violence when confronted. Atheist, like the media, lack the courage to attack Muslims, even when they kill Americans on our soil in the name of Allah. Americas corporate or state controlled media, like that of the Nazis, China and Russia conditions the people to not believe or hate Christianity because the Christian belief of individual rights coming from God instead of man threatens their greed and corruption. Justice does not exist unless we have Christians principles directing our courts. All non-Christian nations are oppressive of their people.

    • Your kidding right? I bet you believe the courts are based on the ten commandments of Exodus. Well for your benefit I shall list the ten commandments that the so-called Moses had written on stone tablets by the finger of god. They are as follows:
      1. Thou shalt worship no other god.
      2. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
      3. The feast of the unleavened bread thou shalt keep.
      4. Six days thou shall work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest.
      5. Thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year’s end.
      6. Thrice in the year shall all you men-children appear before the Lord God.
      7. Thou shalt not offer blood of my sacrifice with leaven.
      8. Niether shall the sacrifice of feast of the paasover be left unto the morning.
      9. The firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the Lord they God>
      10. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in it’s mother’s milk.
      These are the so-called TEN COMMANDMANTS written in stone.
      Do you see some canniblism here? Are you willing to bring YOUR first fruits of men-children to be sacrificed to the the Lord?
      And where would we be if we didn’t no NOT to cook meat in milk?
      Boy have we strayed from the ten commandments. But you do know why, don’t you? BECAUSE NO INTELLIGENT PERSON would believe in these sadistic rituals. Unless your one of THEIR BLOODLINES.
      Wake up people. Your being controlled by entities who wish to divide and rule. It is seen in every culture today. Break the chains of superstition and ancient magik. And rise from your broken and bended knees of submission to face these agents of evil. It’s not too late to throw off the yokes of your oppression.

      • Hey Bro I don’t think those are the ten commandments, might want to check it out.

      • I guess I should explain this also.
        Sargon…I mean “Moses” put up a fence (gate) around a place called Mt. Sinia. To keep the commoners from meeting the Lord.
        He went up the mountain and recieved verbal instructions to relay to the crowd below. Notice. These were not written on anything. Ex 20:2-17.
        Later “Moses” goes back up the mount, where god gives him two tables of stone, with rules written on them. “Moses” goes back down the mount with the tables. When “Moses” sees the crowd worshipping a gold calf, he throws a tantrum and smashes the tables to the ground Ex:32:19.
        And those were not “commandments”. They were “words” which “god spake”.
        It is the third trip that “Moses” recieves the “ten commandments” Ex 34:13:28. And those are the Ten Commandments written above.
        I’m a little rusty on the 700 more commandments that Judaism is privy to. Now if someone could locate where this Mt. Si’nai is on a map. I may give more thought to the story.

      • What did you say you were drinking? Sargon put up a fence. Where did the fence post come from out there in the wilderness?

  17. Christianity has done no favors for God in what they believe is the truth of God. It is through Christians ignorance of what the bible teaches that they bring destruction and ridicule upon themselves by Atheists. If they had not relayed their theories of what the bible says, and instead taught other Christians to seek and understand the truth DIRECTLY from the Source, they would not be in this predicament. Of course if they did that, there would not be the huge influx of cash to churches if everyone knew, and understood God more clearly…… which is another black mark on their silk robe.

    • I agree, it’s why I hate the Catholic church, the pope gets to live in a golden palace while they money poeple “tithe” goes to him… instead of going to spread the gospel or feeding the hungry etc.

  18. I consider myself a blend of several spiritual beliefs. I am a, “cultural”, Christian. I have strong spiritual and Pagan leanings and belief in some of the Native American spiritual teachings. I know there is a God and that there ARE Angels. My guardian Angels have saved my butt more than a few times. I believe the reason that Christians get ridiculed so much is the all-too-common snooty (snotty) attitude that so many of them exhibit. If you believe that you have been saved by Jesus and you are going to Heaven while all others who don’t believe just as you do, think as you do, say the same magic words as you do go to hell, fine. You have the right to believe whatever you wish, same as I or anyone else has the right to believe whatever we wish. The disconnect comes with Christians who think that everyone should be legally mandated to have to live just like they choose to live or wish they lived, with blue laws against Sunday sales, laws against gambling, laws against this, and laws against that. It is not only a world class grind and pain in the butt, but a real turnoff to those who don’t believe exactly as they believe. Believe me, I don’t have any desire to be associated with anything Islamic or to see it get a toe hold here in the US. I have no problem with Buddhism, Hinduism, Atheism, or any other religions or non-religions which do not wish to exercise control over how I live my life or others live theirs.

    That said, Christianity does have quite a few skeletons in its closet not at all distant from the acts of Islam. Islam is about 600 years younger than Christianity and is about where Christianity was with the barbarism thing 600 years ago. Actually, Christians were burning Witches 200 years ago and sadly, there are plenty of mindless sheep who call themselves Christians who would gladly participate in a Witch burning today if the right preacher told them it was for God’s will.

    I get a case of the ass with Atheists and even the occasional Pagan who fight to have Christmas displays taken down and the, “Holiday”, parties to avoid offending some hypersensitive as much as many Christians do. By the same token, I can almost understand the actions of these party poopers as being backlash because of the derision and ridicule they receive from many people who call themselves Christians. If the Christian “Church”, as a whole, were to lighten up, live their beliefs without feeling the need to legislate how others’ live their lives , and generally live and let live, I think much of this bitterness would go away. Unfortunately, there are too many snake oil salesmen and hucksters who cherish their power, glory, and “fame”, by keeping the flames of ridicule and self-superiority stoked, within the Christian Church.

  19. Great post Rat, now that is how blogging should be done. This article is getting picked up by several other blogs around the web as well. Good subject matter, good points by the Rat, and a good thread overall as well.

  20. the trope religion = war,
    irrationalatheist dot com

  21. Attention atheists. Attention atheists.
    You owe it to yourself to find out if God will intervene in your life. He doesn’t have to but He might if you ask. From personal experience I can state that prayers do get answered so you may as well give it a try too. And frankly, I was pretty hard headed and He had to thump my gourd a few times but I finally came around. Enough about me. You get the idea.
    So any way, do the obvious smart thing and find out for yourself. Don’t let the anti-Christ establishment control your mind. You owe it to yourself.

  22. Enjoy these comments -Wish to address Mark’s issue with the swine “fable” – the reason there were swine to cast the demons into was because Genessaret was part of the Greek decapolis, not occupied exclusively by Jews. The owners of the pigs were not Jewish. Hope this provides some clarification.

    • Greeks in Northern Palestine? Hmmm. I find that very hard to believe. Why would an educated class of civilisation live in a dustbowl of ignorance? I doubt if Socrates or even the daring Plato would step foot in such a wilderness.

      • Hey Bro Mark. Whoa, bro, have you read your world history text lately? Northern Palestine? Perhaps you should peruse a book on geography. Try Galilee (that doesn’t sound Jewish to me). Let’s see, Caesarea Philippi, Tiberias, Caesarea,
        Those cities don’t sound Jewish, sounds Greekish to me. Now how did those names get there? When America got started it was colonized and guess what, the Greeks colonized what you call Northern Palestine. Might want to check out the place for Greek games in Jerusalem about the time that guy named Jesus was killed. You know him, the one that has had such a tremendous influence of the culture of the west. You do know that those crazy Greek guys back then played their games without jockey straps.

  23. Okay, after more pondering – one more thought on Mark’s blog, don’t mean to single you out :) but reading quotes from Chirst, you have hit the nail on the head. Christ was and is offensive to many because He stated only one way to know the father, through Him, and NO OTHER; and as such, boldly confronting the powerful Pharisees in this manner resulted in His being crucified. Remember though, that NO ONE, not even the secular writers and eyewitnesses accounts, could refute the miracles he performed, even Tiberius wanted to include Him in the pantheon of Roman gods but the Senate said no. There’s plenty of evidence that he lived, died, and rose from the dead, more evidence written of Him than of Alexander the Great. Chemistry class opened my eyes to the irrefutable proof of intelligent design. If we indeed were created by God, why is it a stretch to believe that He loved us enough to reside with us on a planet he created for us for 33 years. P.S. He’s coming back, too bad the so-called Christians who have THE AUDACITY to give a date will get it wrong as usual and be thrown in the mish-mash of us who actually crack open a Bible once in awhile.

    • Evidence of “resurrection(s)”. Where is the evidence of 500 dead bodies coming out of their graves and walking the streets of Jerusalem? Shouldn’t the Roman scribes report such an event? And what about the Sanhedrin? Surely they would have had at least one convert…right?
      And why 500? Why not 5,000?, or 777? Or in keeping with the trinity, 333.
      Another question. Who wrote down what Jesus said in the garden before his arrest? Everyone was asleep. So who witnessed him praying to his father?

      • Mark Bro Go check your blood pressure. Drink some prune juice. Where are the records? Probably destroyed when Rome sacked Jerusalem around 70 AD.

      • Who wrote down what Jesus said in the garden before his arrest? Everyone was asleep. So who witnessed him praying to his father? Yeah, well since he came back to life he probably mentionted it buddy. Just sayin.

  24. The word Atheist root words means “without god”… but in practice that more describes the Agnostic; DON’T KNOW DON’T CARE.
    Atheist does not = A(theist) IE without God.
    Atheists claim to be simply without God but in actuality they are Antitheists.

    Which is interesting because:
    I cannot prove the existence of God, yet I purport to know there IS a God;
    Therefore mine is a faith based belief system.
    Atheists cannot prove the NONexistence of God, yet they purport to know there IS NOT a God; therefore theirs is a faith based belief system.

    Atheists are what they HATE!!!

    • Not quite, Jack.

      Atheists do not believe god or gods exists, Christians do believe god exists, they both rely on belief. Neither can know, neither has absolute knowledge of the existence of a supernatural being.

      • Skepticism will not save faith. It is a tool for collectivists. I know that there is no rational reason to believe in god, and you can know that too with a little introspection. One simply need to study how the mind learns, with introspection.

        Do we automatically come to knowledge? No. Are we automatically aware of things that exist? No. It must be said, therefore, that the default value given to possible existence is false until rationally demonstrated otherwise. I submit that there is no rational demonstration for the existence of god. Faith — the way theists mean it — leaves no room for reason — one contradicts the other.

        One can claim, therefore, to possess an irrational faith in a god, or can claim to lack rational knowledge of god. One is not permitted to claim a rational faith in god.

      • Oh yeah, Mr. Thesaurus (or should I say, Mr. Lifeordeathpolitics)? Let me shed a little light on the subject for you: there is a little fish in a river deep in a jungle. All the little brown people (you know, the irrational, uneducated, ‘primitive’ people) told the white Western researchers not to pee in the water. They told them about a little fish that would swim up their penis. Did they give any credibility to those brown people? Of course not! Those individuals who wouldn’t listen to the people got fish up their penises & other private parts. Of course, ‘medical science’ (not the brown people’s, but the REAL kind- the White Western kind) still doubts all the many, many accounts by these people and write them off. Because only one White Western guy said HE saw it (not enough for the REAL science committees out there), well… it never happened. Tell that to Silvio Barbossa . He’s not a Western White Scientist, though, so it didn’t actually happen, you know. When one finally swims up one of their precious parts (and there are at least 15 lab coated individuals around to witness it) will be the day it really happened- let me assure you of that.

        Let me give you another little example: dirty, rotten toothed highly uneducated sailors of old used to tell tales of giant squid that would attack ships as a group. They even drew pictures in their journals. Did the great Western scientific minds give any credence to these cretins? Of course not! Why, these creatures never existed up until a Japanese fishing ship hauled one of those suckers out of the sea- and then they showed up off the coast of California attacking ships- en masse! Wowee, whoohoo, Western Scientists had found a new species- let the world celebrate! (I wonder who they will name this new species after?)

        Let me give just another silly little example: People used to think it was just so ‘unreasonable’ and ‘illogical’ and um….”irrational” to believe in a higher being that could just create life out the blue, as it were.

        And yet, a White Western Scientist, a one Dr. J. Craig Venter, has just done this very thing- he has invented the first self replicating synthetic life! Woweeewowwow! I guess creating life out of the blue is, is, is……….POSSIBLE! Be still my heart.

        How about another little ditty: Atheist scientists (the absolutely dumbest kind because they LIMIT the possibilities of what they might find before they even seek) also say that it is… irrational, was it?, that Angels or God can be invisible, unseen- undetected and yet, be among us. Why do they say this? Because their little microscopes haven’t found them yet. And YET, and yet, we now have the beginnings of an invisibility cloak

        Woweewoowwwwow! I guess the possibility of something being around us that is undetectable is…… POSSIBLE! And guess who discovered it? I know, I know, the suspense is killing you, right? Western White Scientists! Yeah, let the world celebrate. It MUST be real since THEY proved it , right?

        Oh, one more thing. These self same atheist scientists (who negated the possibilities of any of this- until they found it, of course) say it is illogical to believe that higher life forms with the ability to create life and the ability to go about us undetected…….(let the drums roll, please) are spending their entire life and trillions of dollars in research LOOKING for these self same entities. They call these beings “aliens”. They acknowledge that they can be of much higher intelligence, might have visited before- undetected- and must be much more technologically advanced than humans to do what they are doing. But just don’t call them Angels, people, because it is the NAME of the alien that matters, not the fact that they might be out there.

        Another thought to consider: if there are ANY beings in the universe more intelligent and more technologically advanced than man- who are these (really bad) scientists to say just HOW much more advanced they may be? Did someone give MAN the authority to dictate just how smart another entity can be? what things they might be able to do? how long they might live? Just when does this entity become so smart that they…. created MAN in a ‘test tube’? Huh? Geez. Hollywood has more imagination than these atheist scientists & thinkers!

        I lied. How about one more thing. Atheist White Western Scientists (I’m sure other colors are involved, but this very limited mindset seems especially strong among this race group) say is it… yes, you guessed it, ‘irrational’ to believe in a Person who could know the future- and the past at the same time. A Person who could be everywhere. Who could know everything (did they ever consider the possibility of a really, really big ‘computer’ with all the fixin’s?). All at the same time. (you know the drums should roll here, but we will forgo the ceremony because we are all sick of it by now) A White Western scientist has just…. PROVED that parallel REALITIES can exist- at the same …… TIME!

        Ahhhhh, the possibilities this presents. What if one could transverse those ‘realities’? What if one had enough ‘computer’ data among all those different realities to ….to…. PREDICT or even…… with the application of a more advanced version of probability & statistics……… even KNOW the future? (Geez, Isaac Asimov, with no science degree, had more imagination than these people).

        Mankind can do it- and we acknowledge our severe limitations- mentally, technologically & physically. But NO ONE ELSE can. Or, at least, no one called GOD. Wanna know why, people? Because as long as these so called scientists don’t need to fall to their knees to WORSHIP another being (see, that is the sticking point here), they can acknowledge ANY OTHER LIFE FORM and any other possibility. It just can’t be their Maker. Not a Maker who tells them what to do (you know, those pesky ‘rights & wrongs’) and worse, that need God has to be ACKNOWLEDGED as their God & Maker.

        The only scientist worth a grain of salt is one who NEVER discounts the possibilities. They seek knowledge hungrily & humbly and always consider what MIGHT be. To see the massive order (so very unnatural) all around us and act like you don’t see it is just plain dumb. I shake my head that the amazing effort of people to avoid the white elephant in the room. A good scientist would say, “look, it is all ordered. ALL our experience shows us that order is NOT the natural state of the universe. Everything falls down without maintenance. A clean room becomes messy (entropy). Why all this order? It is CLEAR that someone designed it as the design is SCIENTIFICALLY magnificent & perfect. If mankind could create all this order, we would be unbelievably advanced. Let’s try to find the designer and learn from him.” And off they would go. A BAD scientist says… look at this order. I must have just….. you know… happened.

        The hubris of man is exactly what makes (some of us) the absolutely worst scientists EVER. Also the most self contradicting and dare I say it, the most

        * irrational*.

      • Short Little Rebel,

        I appreciate the passion you display in your writing. I’ve enjoyed a post you made on your blog about being watchful in regards to our kids’ public education. You response this time, however unintentional, has been the biggest (size wise) straw-man I have ever seen. I don’t think you’ve addressed my argument/position directly, and you have instead addressed something I did not communicate explicitly or intend implicitly.

        If what you’re saying is that atheist can be irrational, that is true. If you’re saying that it’s wrong to classify theists as irrational, that is true in most cases for the people I know. If you’re saying that some people are ignorant of the truth because they evade evidence, that is true — they are irrational for doing so. If you’re saying that some people are ignorant because they simply lack evidence, that is true — they are still rational.

        Now is it possible for the Christian God to exist. I think not, but this isn’t the time nor am I willing to reinvent the wheel — read “Atheism: The Case Against God” if you’re interested in your opposition’s rational position. Keep this in mind; everything we rationally know that exists can be reduced down to sensory data (sight, touch, taste, smell, and noise). Ask yourself this, have you seen, touched, tasted, smelled or heard God recently?

        Now for what is possible, I made have made an error in thinking, but only reason — not faith — can root it out. I may also be misunderstanding what most Christians mean by faith too, but not likely. I heard it many times many different ways — I used to be one.

      • “One can claim, therefore, to possess an irrational faith in a god, or can claim to lack rational knowledge of god. One is not permitted to claim a rational faith in god.” -you. I had to address this- and I did. But you contradict yourself with:

        “Now is it possible for the Christian God to exist. I think not”- you. And you are finally making some sense! You said, “Think” . Very good.

        “Keep this in mind; everything we rationally know that exists can be reduced down to sensory data (sight, touch, taste, smell, and noise). ” -You. Now this is the dumbest thing you have ever said. This right here. Please prove to me that a glass of water on a desk exists, if you will. You can’t. To put such faith in the ‘rationality’ or ‘reality’ of a thing based on human senses is so ignorant I can’t even … sputter… OK. Let’s address this, shall we? Can we hear what a dog can hear? Um. No. Can we see what a bat can? no. I’ve never seen an air molecule- and neither did anyone else 200 years ago. Did that invalidate the fact that an atom existed then nonetheless? Science, by nature, is supposed to be a grand adventure into the UNKNOWN. Into the things we can’t sense as mere humans. To say that something is not THERE, does not EXIST because the current generation can’t SENSE it is completely illogical. It admits defeat before the experiment even begins! The lack of rational thought, of logical thought- from you and other atheists always confounds me! Please read my “Want to see relative morality in action?” article and see how two atheists couldn’t even find a single reason for me to stop completely vile behavior.

        That is why atheists are terrible scientists (and philosophers & politicians).

        “you have instead addressed something I did not communicate explicitly or intend implicitly.” Absolutely untrue. I addressed you precisely. You just hate the way I did it.

        Why should I read a book that is premised on a lack of logic? I have already showed, without a doubt, the self contradictions of the atheist scientific mindset (on which your entire argument is based). It is so simple to do. Why would I wish to delve further into a limited mindset to see why they think that way? I will leave that to future anthropologists, thank you.

        I LOVE science. These people you seem to trust are the most are blind & plain stubborn. Nothing more.

        “Ask yourself this, have you seen, touched, tasted, smelled or heard God recently?” Answer: yes. Read my “One Christian’s Journey”. But since it was not actually witnessed & documented by 14 Western White scientists and presented via a doctorate student in his PHD paper before the one & only, all knowledge knowing Western science committee, it didn’t actually happen.

        I find it interesting that you seem to think ‘instinct’ & ‘gut’ are not actual sensory data. Typical of your limited thinking patterns. When I observe something that extends throughout, not only the human species, but all the animal species, I am tempted to give it some credibility and ask what it might be. But that is just me. The rest of the world will just have to wait until a PHD student writes about it in the near future. I can see the title now: “Seventh Sense discovered in Human Beings”. I wonder who that sense will be named after?

        *one more sputter*

      • One more thing. God wants you back. You are being disobedient and the more you go around trying to convince people that God does not exist- the more trouble you will be in- especially if you are directly responsible for leading someone away from God. Better to keep your doubts to yourself until you sort this out. You will have less to answer for. I feel the need to say these words to you. I hope you do the right thing.

      • Short Little Rebel,

        You did address me precisely, and I would have definitely preferred for you to address my arguments accurately (i.e. directly) instead — both times. Instead you built up these straw-men (unintentionally?) only to knock them down.

        My first argument, in case you want to try again, was challenging the idea that you can have rational faith (the way Christians mean faith). Faith and rational thought contradict one another and cannot coexist — kind of like a round square cannot exist because they are contradictions to one another.

        Your response to my first argument was, as far as I can tell, about the irrationality of doubt, which does not address my claim directly because the rationality of doubt was not my argument; thus, my categorizing your response a response to a straw-man.

        My second argument was that everything can be REDUCED to sensory information — key word: reduced. If we are to detect the existence of anything within rational terms we need to see, touch, smell, taste, or hear it. In order to detect atoms or other planets, we needed to build a tool to enhance our vision. Anything that may exist that we cannot detect directly, we need to build a machine that can detect those existents and then translate that information into something we can detect directly. Instrument is the name we gave these machines – they help us perceive more than we could alone.

        Your response to my second argument attempts to changes my entire meaning “To say that something is not THERE, does not EXIST because the current generation can’t SENSE it [directly] (edit within brackets is mine).” I think you meant “sensed directly” given your examples.

        Just to clarify my second argument one more time, in case you wanted to try addressing it directly this time; there is no rational reason to think that something exists just because it’s possible — i.e., it hasn’t been disproven yet and there is no sensory evidence to support its existence. You must have some supporting evidence that you can see, touch, taste, smell or hear. If you think that is irrational, then you’re right, my book suggestion will not help you understand your opposition’s rational position.

      • You know, m082844, it always makes me laugh when people say ‘straw man’ or ‘ad hominem’ anymore. Since you seem to have a fine grasp of the English language, why not try other adjectives? These two are really dead horses that have been whipped to their sad little bones. What I love most about atheists is their need to cling to semantics and fancy language. Life is clear and concise- as much as (some) people wish to muddy it. I don’t bother to scrape around in the mud with atheists- I go right to the point of the irrational nature of their entire thought process. Why bother with details? If my arguments are made of straw, they should be easy to knock down. A fine wind should do it.

        All you can do is re-iterate your first arguments and avoid my so-easy-to-blow-down arguments. Why? because you need me to get into your muddy paddy. That is the number one goal of atheists! Why should I? Blow down my straw man first.

      • “Keep this in mind; everything we rationally know that exists can be reduced down to sensory data (sight, touch, taste, smell, and noise). Ask yourself this, have you seen, touched, tasted, smelled or heard God recently?”

        Keep THIS in mind; there is NO empirical evidence for the human mind.

      • “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen” (Heb.11:1)

      • Dave, what so many people fail to see is that faith, God, angels, Satan- are all REAL- I mean, physically & scientifically real. They are a part of science as much as air molecules are. If man wouldn’t destroy himself, he would eventually find God under his microscope. Just because people can’t SEE God, doesn’t make him not exist. Just as air molecules existed from the beginning of the earth- though dumb scientists couldn’t ‘see’ them way back when. Scientists are just as dumb today. Any scientist worth his/her grain of salt would admit this. To pursue the unknown, to thirst for knowledge- one must first assume that we are completely ‘wrong’ about everything we know. Remember when the same breed of arrogant ‘scientists’of the past believed the world was flat, or that the sun revolved around the earth? They thought mankind had come a long way too.

        If you begin your science with the assumption that mankind ‘has come a long way’, then you must also think you don’t have far to go. Which is absurd in the face of the fact that we can’t even cure the common cold, have never gone outside our own solar system, can’t figure out genetics, etc, etc. One must assume all is possible (to be a good scientist) and that mankind has only moved a micro step forward. This is called pragmatic HUMILITY. A good scientist must assume that he/she/we are 100% wrong today, but hope to know more tomorrow. We should present our data in this way. We can present our conclusions in this way. Then we seek again. For a scientist with this mentality, the sky is the limit on what they might learn.

        Scientists/ philosophers/ atheists who claim that it is irrational to believe that something (God) exists though we can’t sense it with only the five senses they give any credibility to are just , well, dumb. They refuse to acknowledge the inner ‘knowing’ as sense, by the way, regardless of the fact that all human societies sense God in this way. As in the case with air molecules, sperm, bacteria, viruses, photons, molecules, genes, – well, you get it- these all existed before puny MAN found them, sensed them, and proclaimed they were real. It is plain contradictory. Interestingly enough, these self same scientists only have this blindness to their own bad science as concerns the existence of God. Funny, huh? I wonder why….

      • Aquinas shrugged,
        What do you mean? What in the world made your post possible then, if not your mind?

        Dave the sage,
        Faith is the acceptance of something as true without the basis of evidence. It is accepting an arbitrary (http://www.importanceofphilosophy.com/Epistemology_Arbitrary.html) assertion.

        short little rebel,
        At first you seemed eager to respond directly, now it seems you wish not “to scrape around the mud with [me].” You claim that I am not clear and concise, but rather I’m “muddy” and murky. What is not clear or concise about “Faith and rational thought contradict one another and cannot coexist,” or “everything can be reduced to sensory information?” Feel free not to address any of these statements directly; you choosing to address or not to address them directly does not make them more or less wrong – there is no trap set – you’re just limiting your rational capacity to learn (whether I’m right or wrong) by evading them. I would be happy for you to show me an error in my thinking so that I may correct it.

        The term straw-man has a precise meaning: A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent’s position. I choose to use that word because it’s appropriate in this case. My highlighting your chosen approach towards addressing my argument, which continues to validate the word, doesn’t make the word any less potent.

        And so you build these straw-men, and wish me to address them? A straw-man is a logical fallacy, and me simply identifying your argument as such warrants no response – to do otherwise (and respond), thereby granting your response the status of a logically consistent thought would be irrational on my part. My debating your irrational argument doesn’t make your argument any more rational. You should want to fix your arguments once you’ve identified a fallacy or a contradiction in your thinking.

        Lastly, scientists are able to further our knowledge through discovery – i.e., increasing our ability to detect physical things using our physical senses. What has faith discovered recently? Can your faith determine whether a coin landed heads or tails like your sight can once you’ve seen it? Does the fact you’ll be 1/2 right “using” faith validate your faith? The fact that I’m 100% right using my eyes validates my sight. You seem so eager to doubt the very tools necessary for you to interact with the physical world but you’re unwilling to doubt something that, by its very nature, lacks any physical evidence whatever – i.e., faith.

      • I addressed those questions already. Can’t do it again. Atheists always refuse to answer questions they don’t like. I call this the ‘flouncing from the room’ phenomena.

      • just answer my points and give yourself some credibility.

      • What I mean is that the existence of mind is empirically unprovable as science defines proof. The same criteria for mind exists as for God. One can point to the evidence that proceeds from mind(art,science) or from God (nature) but as for the direct observation via the senses; neither can be empirically and therefore rationally proven.

      • sort little rebel,
        I don’t see you addressing my original argument (or second argument supporting the original) directly — illustrated here: http://constitutionclub.org/2011/05/04/why-do-atheists-ridicule-christianity/#comment-45056. I guess I’m a little slower than I’d like to be, so please show me what I missed.

        I don’t mind answering any questions you may have; however, I understood this exchange to be directly about my original argument (or second argument supporting the original). I think what you’re witnessing, unless I missed something, is me staying focused. You asking off focused questions is a lot better than misrepresenting my arguments, so ask away.

        Aquinas Shrugged,
        I’m familiar with the unproven mind/existence arguments. I was wondering if you were taking that approach. I know you don’t agree with that approach and neither do I; however, faith is not required to overcome them. It is a logical fallacy to assume there is no mind/existence because you assume the very thing you’re rejecting while you’re making the argument! (Wow that was enlightening when I first heard of it – I remember the feeling I got with the revelation that followed). It’s called the fallacy of the stolen concept: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-refuting_idea#Indirectly_self-denying_statements_or_.22fallacy_of_the_stolen_concept.22. Enjoy :)

      • m082844,
        I am quite familiar with the “fallacy of the stolen concept” and have read the entire Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology. Several times. We were not discussing what I believed, we were discussing what can be proven empirically.

        “If we are to detect the existence of anything within rational terms we need to see, touch, smell, taste, or hear it. I”

        I merely pointed out that the human mind cannot. While I agree that we all experience one or another aspect of consciousness, one cannot empirically observe consciousness. I would never argue that existence cannot be observed empirically.

        As for Ayn Rand’s so-called rationality, one need only observe the mess she made of her own life to see how questionable her philosophy is. The problem with her as with all liberals is that they begin with talk of rationality and end with belief in rationalism.

      • AS,

        I think I know where I’m being misunderstood. My sentence using the five senses to detect existence is only for external existence outside of the mind. That doesn’t mean there isn’t evidence for consciousness — indeed, it is self-evident. Without consciousness, the idea of proof would be impossible. What would evaluate the the evidence and come to a conclusion if not consciousness. Take a look at axioms here and let me know if that clarifies anything: http://www.importanceofphilosophy.com/Metaphysics_Axiom.html

      • And what about Objectivism do you equate to rationalism?

      • Okay m0, I have a bad habit of letting myself get distracted from the main point of a thread. Propriety demands that a different discussion warrants a new thread. You should be able to figure out which one it is…

      • Do you mind posting a link?

  25. The problem is is that most “Christians” although profess to be, Jesus stated in the last days, “their actions” will prove that they are not. They are what he calls “false Christians”.

    Consider how these “Christians” have used God and the Bible to murder, kill, lie, steal and do other gross negligent acts that the Bible condemns. They have caused and participated in 2 World Wars, despite Jesus having warned them to “turn the other cheek” and “put away your sword (or weapons), for those who live by the sword, will die by the sword”. Inspite of these warnings, they continue to act as agents of Satan not agents of God.

    Nonetheless, in these last days, a small group of true “Chiristians” who never participated in bloodshed, do not support wars of any kind, not political in any way, do not support any man-made institute, relegious or political, obey the laws and strive to be good citizens and neighbors in whatever land they live, have a worldwide brotherhood that support the same belief system according to what our Heavenly Father wrote in his Book and adhere strickly to what their King Jesus preached.

    This small group of true Christians will survive the coming anger of GOD and his enthroned Son, Jesus who will both, along with the heavenly army of angels, exact due justice on this wicked and dying system.

  26. To the neoconned:
    What does Nibiru have to do with the facts presented? I guess Bruno deserved to be burned at the stake for even offering the phathom of evidence that the earth was spherical rather than flat.
    Kook? Hmmmm. Nibiru is not nearly as KOOK(y) as say a talking snake, floating axes, talking donkeys. Or the man’s sperm is all it takes to procreate. Or Thomas Aquinas flying around in the catherdral of Notre Dame.
    Or the drunkard and gassy Martin Luther. Did you know he did most of his writings in an outhouse? Talk about kooks!
    Those who dismiss the knowledge of our ancient ancestors. Do so at their own peril.
    The same bloodlines that sought out children for sacrifices in ancient days are still with us. The same bloodlines who instigated both sides of conflicts and wars, still hold dominion over us, their slaves! Until we are allowed to say NO to their governments, religions, currencies, wars, famine, poverty and death. We are still their SLAVES!
    I simply cannot understand those who bellow “freedom” at every turn and then deny it to others.
    These repeaters and megaphones of the bloodlines will be herded into the same pens as those who know nothing at all about their condition(s). Their sadistic games are going to continue as long as they are ALLOWED to use government, religion(s), creeds and deception on the masses. They have used these motives throughout history. And man has succumbed and suffered greatly for it.
    I guess next you will proclaim Adolf Hilter was NOT a catholic. No KOOKS here. Just the facts about the lies you believe as history. Always remember WHO writes the histories and WHO does it benefit.

  27. A post like this sure brings out the wackos and loonies. Between “Mark” and “neoconned ” it makes you despair at what our culture produces… Though both profoundly validate the point of the post. Well done Rat.

    • Ad Hoc will get you nothing from the intelligent. By all means stay in your barless prison(s). If throwing barbs and insults about knowledge which you reject or fail to comprehend, allows you a good night’s rest. So be it. Just remember. It is those of us who have seen the wicked for what they are. And we will not rest until the entire human race see’s their evil and exposes their crimes.

  28. The venom and bitterness with which the attacks are delivered speaks to an inner fear in many of these people. Makes you wonder, if somewhere deep in the mind of the non-believer, there isn’t a tiny bit of “holy crap, what if I’m wrong?” going on. Prepare for more vitriol Dave…

    • Exactly what “wacko” comment have I made?

      I pointed out the kookiness of Mark’s belief that “all religion stems from Sumer”, it is totally historically inaccurate.

      As far as the atheists vs believers debate goes, as I already pointed out, both are operating on BELIEF, not knowledge, neither have the ability to prove anything concerning their faiths….so it is a draw.
      The only legit argument IS Agnosticism, since we cannot know.

      If any of you want to debate that, go right ahead….but I know you won’t.

      • Okay, this is the closest I’ll probably ever come to agreeing with you on anything: Two thirds of your argument are true: neither Christians nor atheists can prove themselves right, nor the other wrong. (which is why it’s called “faith.”)

        The difference, of course, is that most atheists I know look down their noses at the “naivety” or “outright stupidity” of Christians.

        I don’t view it as an algebraic formula, i.e. “therefore, agnosticism is the only legitimate argument.” If Christianity were “provable,” faith would not be necessary.

  29. Um, it is NOT algebra, it is called “logic”.

    For some reason, I doubt you know ANY atheists, let alone have conversations with them.

    I see “Christians” going way beyond “looking down their noses”, to the point of wanting to impose their morality through law upon all citizens.

    • Algebra is logic; faith is not.

      I have a brother-in-law who’s an atheist, as well as several friends. Wrong again Mr. Know-it-all (As in Rocky and Bullwinkle)

      “I see “Christians” going way beyond “looking down their noses”, to the point of wanting to impose their morality through law upon all citizens.”

      Spoken like a true non-believer. Live under a rock, do you?

      In God we Trust on money, private prayer in schools, Pledge of Allegiance, Mangers in public squares, Merry Christmas: All spooky stuff that threatens the eternal damnation of atheists. (Before you get your hair on fire again, the “eternal damnation” part is tongue-in-cheek.)

      • No, algebra incorporates logic, but what I said, how I reach my point, was through LOGIC, not algebra…ie, it was not algebra.

        The list you created are not “laws”, they are symbols.
        You see, an example of “Christians” forcing their morality upon citizens through law would be marriage only between two people of the opposite sex.

  30. And what “symbols” of atheism do Christians work through the courts to have removed? Of course, Christians don’t feel threatened, nor “imposed upon” by atheism.

    • WTF?

      “And what “symbols” of atheism do Christians work through the courts to have removed?”

      You got me, I have no clue to what you are asking.
      It is “Christians” that have added laws and references to god in our legal framework, yet we are supposedly a nation where religion is not supposed to be a part of any law where the state defends a religion.

    • Now the “knowledge” appears. The very complex of your government in Washington DC sits upon “sacred” grounds. The New Troy and Rome are it’s name. Both ancient areas were hubs of the MYSTICAL RELIGIONS. So it only makes sense that the BLOODLINES of those before ANOINTED the grounds of District of COLUMBIA. Columbia is a SERPENT GODDESS. You will find her sitting atop of the Capital building also. You will find her on old u.S. currencies also. So it any suprise to see the pagan symbols all throughout the major cities around the world?
      Folks we have been conned and decieved by the same BLOODLINES of MYSTERY RELIGIONS from a long, long time ago. All one needs to do is read Albert Pikes’ Morals and Dogma.
      And if you’re brave enough, read Trance-Formation of America. By Cathy O’Brien, Mark Phillips. WARNING***You will never look at the government of the united States the same again. A truly evil and vile bunch, they are.

      • Hey Bro Mark, haven’t you seen those national treasure movies?

      • Have you looked into the BLOODLINES of the producers of those movies? This is what gets me riled up.
        You “Christians” wail and gnash your teeth at Hollywood and the “filth” they present to “your” children and society in general. But you NEVER utter one word about the creators and perveyors of the offences.
        In fact you support and fund these BLOODLINES through your “christain” churches and governments.
        You support their agenda unknowingly and ignorant of their true motives to keep you as their SLAVES!
        When you become aware of the scams and schemes of the BLOODLINES. Then you will have obtained the KNOWLEDGE to fight them.
        But. As long as you’re WORSHIPPING the BLOODLINES and accepting their agenda(s), your future is safely within their grasp. Throw off thier shroud of darkness and come into the LIGHT. It is there, they are exposed.

      • Bro Mark Now I understand you are a capitalist. The entire commenting was to get to point you could push your book. How about that?

  31. I gave you a list of “symbols” that atheists, among others, have worked through the courts to have removed. I’m interested in a similar list of symbols that Christians find so anathema…

    • You still make no sense, atheists have not had a hold on power where they have inserted laws or symbols based on atheism to be challenged by “Christians”.

      You still seem to have this total confusion about where so many of of our laws originated from, they came from the West European traditions and laws, which are “Christian” based….not atheist based.

      • “You still seem to have this total confusion about where so many of of our laws originated from, they came from the West European traditions and laws, which are “Christian” based….not atheist based.” Now aren’t you glad they are based on the “Christian” principle of freedom. It is a God given right. It is some times call free will. God does not force one to be a Christian. Each person has the right to chose to accept God and worship Him or to reject Him. The atheist in this country is acting on his God given right to accept or reject God. Now if that freedom was not incorporated in the Constitution, you and the rest of us would in all probability not be having this discussion. Which other model of government would you chose to follow? What would be the result? There are several choices of government not based on this Christian principle.

  32. awestTexasview:Now aren’t you glad they are based on the “Christian” principle of freedom.

    You don’t have “freedom” under any religion, your “soul” is locked into whatever concept that religion has. If you are a “Christian”, your “soul” goes to hell or purgatory for eternity it does not accept “god”.

    The LEGAL freedoms in our Constitution were written by Deists, who rejected the powers of Kings (who claimed their power from “god”)…..but still most of the laws were derived from the judeo-christain tradition, and “god” and religious bias still exists within the laws. Again, the Deist Founding Fathers specifically called for and incorporated a separation of church and state at the federal level, it was not perfect and the work to remove these errors continues.

    • The “deists” classification doesn’t hold water. Read George Washington, Samuel Adams, Ben Franklin, Henry Clay, and others. They may not have been a particular church member but they did believe in the Bible, Jesus and God. You don’t have to be the member of a particular church to be a Christian.

    • Just pointing out an error in that comment…those who go to purgatory after their deaths are those who in their heart of hearts do believe in God and his Christ but at the time of their death aren’t quite worthy to meet him just yet. Purgatory is a time of purification, and you could say it’s the longer way to heaven. Hell on the other hand is indeed permanent.

  33. I used to be apart of a church but not anymore. They’re so easy to come down on those who are not considered up to their moral standard. I have a gay brother. He could never be apart of a church. Just as an example of what I’ve said: My mother was living in Oklahoma at one point. Every Sunday, like clockwork, a bus would come and take all the kids in the neighborhood to church. Well, one day, for whatever reason, my mother decided to keep her kids home. You wanna know how those people reacted? “YOU’RE GOING TO HELL!” They act like rabid animals that need to be put down before they hurt anyone else. And men in church aren’t all saintly like we all think they are. In fact, 50% of them view pornography. Funny how they condemn people for viewing porn and yet they themselves view it. And don’t tell me “Oh that’s just a few bad apples.” That ship has long since sailed away.

  34. I believe in God somewhat but you have to take in consideration, modern science. Modern science suggests atheistic views such as evolution which makes a lot more sense than creationism. And why would He create us in such wide detail with all our cells and DNA. Why would he create millions, and millions, of different species, why would he end it in a great flood, why doesn’t anyone think that Joesph had sex with Mary, and a whole lot more, if Adam and Eve mated with each other than who would their children mate with if they mate with each other they will produce retarded children, you have to take many things into consideration.

  35. SIAIh 41 BRING forth your IDOLS did they PREACH to you see they can’t speak they can’t DO ANYTHING all they do is cause confusion. spalms 115 and spalms 135 thier IDOLS are FALSE cant speak can’t hear cant smell and those that make them shall become like them. Jeremiah 10 they nail their IDOL down like a scarecrow it can’t move can’…t speak can’t move must be carried these are nothing but the WORK of CON men.john 10 jesus christ sais his sheep hear his voice and another voice thy will not follow and if another person tries to preach to them they WILL FLEE from him. jeremiah 5 the priests bear rule on their own authority what will you do when your judged my word is not inside them. Now here is the kicker john 5 son of man voice goes back in time mathew 16 jesus christ claims to be the son of man.‎1 cor2 mind of CHRIST preached internally and john 16 sais the spirit of truth comes in the future. Ezekiel 13 lying prophets of ISRAEL my word is not inside them saying god sais god sais god sais wrote hoping mankind would CONFIRM their WORDS. all of this is EASILY verifiable.

  36. My main issue with religious people is that you only choose one when pretty much all of them tell you to believe only in them. Islam and Judaism (and by extention christianity) have nearly matching commandments and yet seemingly the only factor to decide on which to believe in is almost always exposure.

    • My main issue with political people is that you only choose one when pretty much all of them tell you to believe only in them. Democrats and Republicans (and by extention liberals and conservatives) have nearly matching political ideals and yet seemingly the only factor to decide on which to believe in is almost always exposure.

  37. I feel sorry for those who claim to be atheist (ect.), for someday they will stand before the great white throne Judgment (Rev. 20:10). The very book that they abuse will be opened and the very God they deny will judge them. And their atheism and their body, soul and spirit will be “thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone….and they will be tormented day and night forever” (Rev. 20:10). That does not have to happen! We as Christians are trying very hard to see to it that our atheist friend come to know Christ before that happens.
    Joe

  38. I describe myself as “Cheerfully Agnostic”. I believe the Universe and Human life as a purpose, and that the reasons are so totally beyond what I can perceive and understand in my current state of existence, it’s silly to even ask too many questions. I’m like an ant walking on top of a nuclear reactor. I might feel a bit of heat, but I have no conception of what’s going on beneath my feet.

    Nor does that worry me too excessively. I figure that if there is a master plan somewhere, than obviously I am a part of it, and I am where I am, doing what I am doing, for reasons that are part of that plan, so I will just make the best of things and do the best that I think I can, based on my own view of morality and common sense. If that’s not good enough, well… I’ll just have to take what comes afterwards.

  39. They ridicule Christians because they cannot believe in an all loving God of Heaven. The Bible makes clear they’re eyes are blinded by the god of this world. Here’s the bottom line and the true reason. Either you are a child of God or your a child of Satan’s. Obviously that answers all questions.

  40. I think it is very difficult to believe that God is real and that He is who He says He is. He tells us that the road is narrow and many choose the broad road. I believe that the broad road is taken by those who simply believe what they want to believe rather than what is true. While it may be difficult, I still believe.

  41. Christianity is not religion. It’s a faith. Jesus came to destroy religion.
    Just wanted to put that in there.

  42. Not trying to ridicule your beliefs but, Iam an atheist, and for all the atheist comments that make sense I can find you dont have a reply for most of them dear Rat. Growing up I was taught to beleive in EVOLUTION and SCIENCE. Not to humans imediatly being placed on a pre made earth. It shocks me how you can beleive that, when there is scientifical proof that those never happened. I beleive that its a personal choice, and that your attack on someones belief is cruel and hypocritical. I have many close friends and family with the same beliefs as yourself, and have no problem. I still love them with all my heart. Its only a choice. if you believe strongly enough in your god, then atheists shouldnt bother you. not all of then are violently accusing christianity, we would just like to be free from people shoving your religion down our throats. hope I made my point fairly clear. Have a nice day :)

  43. From the look of your comments, I have to ask: Did actually READ the post?

    “It shocks me how you can beleive that, when there is scientifical proof that those never happened.”

    Where in the post did I say that I “don’t believe (vs. “beleive”) in evolution and science?”

    “I beleive that its a personal choice, and that your attack on someones belief is cruel and hypocritical.”

    What planet are you on? That comment is exactly what I wrote the post AGAINST. Did you not read the quotes from Christopher Hitchens? “Attack someone’s belief is cruel…” Bwahaha. Seriously?

    I normally don’t take the time to respond to comments like yours that are so far from the reality of what I actually wrote, but this one was beyond the pale. It looks like you simply fired up your standard “I’m a poor atheist who Christians like to pick on” spiel. Thanks for playing.

    • I never said I was playing any “game” RAT, All Im saying is its a choice. And Im not accusing here. IF you beleive in “adam and eve” WHERE DID THEY COME FROM? the bible never said anything of the sort. I was told I was going to HELL in chrintian school before my parents and I converted to atheism, all because I tried to bring evolution into the equation, and for “questioning my creator”. Do you believe telling a child those things are good? I had nightmares and prayed for hours begging for forgivness. Are you cruel enough to think thats ok? Im not playing any role in your make believe “GAME”. Im not saying all christans are bad, you referencing my HOME PLANET seems like a very childish and desperate move in your GAME. thanks for playing RAT.

      • ITS ONLY A CHOICE. :)

      • Yeah, I’m really “desperate” when it come to dealing with arguments such as yours. ;-)

        Listen, and I’ll type r-e-a-l-l-y- s-l-o-w:

        My post was NOT written for the purpose of getting into the centuries-old “Christians vs. atheists” argument, got it?

        It WAS written for this reason: High-profile atheists like Bill Maher and Christopher Hitchens use their celebrity to not only bash Christianity, but to do it with condescension, ridicule, scorn, and what appears to be downright HATRED. PERIOD.

        Wise up.

      • The Rat
        It’s very strange you call Christopher Hitchens a “celebrity” when he is a world renowned author who’s beliefs are based on fact rather than myth.

      • You’re messing with us, right? Christopher Hitchens is a world-renowned writer; that qualifies as “celebrity” in most rational quarters. The fly in your ridiculous ointment, of course, is that he became famous for his writing prowess – NOT his atheism. Wise up.

  44. Its really funny seeing you holier than thou christians railing on atheism. Being an atheist I dont give a damn what christians believe. You are entitled to your beliefs and I respect that. Just dont try to ram em down my throat. There has been more misery wrested upon the peoples of the earth in the name of the religion that should make each and every one of you ashamed.

    • As is the case with the atheist above “Anonymous,” it appears that you didn’t actually read the post either. (Takes cojones to comment as “anonymous,” huh?)

      “Its really funny seeing you holier than thou christians railing on atheism. Being an atheist I dont give a damn what christians believe. You are entitled to your beliefs and I respect that. Just dont try to ram em down my throat.”

      Holier than thou? Railing on atheism? Ramming Christianity down your throat? If you read ANY OF THAT in my post, you’re angrier with yourself than you even appear to be in your asinine comment.

    • Do you have a problem with retention, or did you simply not read my article? Where in the post do I “ram religion” down anyone’s throat? By the way, I don’t give a damn about your atheism; you most likely deserve it.

      Perhaps if you understood the article you would be in a better position to leave behind a relevant comment vs. the above nonsense.

  45. I’m sorry, but this bothers me, because if someone ridicules another religion, that should reflect the PERSON, not their religion. Being an Atheist, I respect others beliefs and opinions. I have seen Christians mock other religions, but I don’t take it out on the religion itself. If someone degrades a religion, that’s a mark of their character, and it’s just the way they are. Assuming that all Atheists are like this is completely false. It’s like saying all black people are mean, which is racist. I suppose this is religionist.

    I hope you all respect my opinion :)

    • Respect? Not so much, and here’s why:

      Although most of your second comment makes sense, your first one makes accusations against the post that are ridiculous; I said nothing that you accuse me of saying.

      I tend to respond in-kind to comments. If they’re well thought out and to-the-point, (of what I actually said in a post) I’ll respond likewise. If they’re ridiculously broad-brushed and accuse me of something I did not say, I’ll do one of two things: Ignore them, or let’er rip. (The “let ‘er rip” option only comes into play when someone comes at me with sarcasm and vitriol, when my post was none-of-the-kind.)

  46. Do you consider “WHY ATHEISTS RIDICULE CHRISTIANITY” an appropriate name?? what about “WHY CHRISTIANS RIDICULE ATHEISM”? You are NOT an atheist, and just because you know athiests that “ridicule” your poor religion doesnt mean you have a right to label every atheist. We dont come to your doors telling you to change. Im wise enough to not “type r-e-a-l-l-y- s-l-o-w” for you, reasoning that youre an adult. If any what IS your opinion of Atheism? I would like to know.

  47. POOR RELIGION?

    See what I mean? Perfect.

    • Exactly what? Apparently you cant answer questions. Thanks for proving everything for me. Thank you for telling me how you view us. thank you for showing me how dense and one sided a humans brain can truely be!! :) see what I mean perfect!!

      • I apologize if Im comming off as rude. but you are as well. I understand we have our own opinions. All I was trying to say is that this could set off a lot of people including myself. Im not close to an extremist, but Im assuming neither are you. All we did was blow our tops, and fight. And it was totally uncivilized. Im glad you can fight for your opinion because many people cant. Im done here.

      • Exactly, as in ‘exactly right’ I agree with him. And no questions have been asked of me…

      • Hey Carl, this train left the station a long time ago. Perhaps you should scurry off to some other blog and start from the beginning. Sorry, dude – you’re boring me.

  48. Er, guys, not all atheists are belligerent. The most zealous, loud atheists can be jerks, just as with any group, be it republicans or Christians or what-have-you. Don’t stereotype an entire group here. The reason the Bill Mahers and Sam Harrises are coming out of the woodwork now is because people are becoming disillusioned with religion. Notice I said “religion”, not “god”. The loudest Christians, Muslims, etc. bother folks, and churches seem archaic to much of today’s youth. So it makes sense that there is sudden “religion-bashing”. This does not mean that there were not atheists before; now it’s simply more acceptable to come out of the nonreligious closet.

    I’m an atheist, and I’m not about to throw a fit about how theists bash atheism. It doesn’t matter. My ideas and thoughts on religion aren’t so shaky that a few angry folks can change it, and I’m sure you guys feel the same way.

    What does bother me is that many theists believe that atheists have no or almost no moral compass. This is simply untrue. Humanity does not need a god to give it a moral code; I act in a way that I consider moral because it suits me and contributes positively to society. I’m not about to go around killing folks or cheat on my boyfriend simple because I don’t have a deity shaking his finger at me.

    Point is, atheists can be pretty cool and are greatly outnumbered, so some of us gotta be loud. Sorry about that. Ignore the rudeness and continue with your beliefs. We aren’t all evil heathens – promise.

  49. I’d also like to say that it’s terribly unfortunate that so many rude, uneducated atheists seem to be replying to this blog in an embarrassing manner.

    Hopefully you won’t assume we’re all like that. I dislike radical atheists even more than radical theists, because they make us all look bad. Guess you folks get a lot of that too, though. :)

    • Thanks for your intelligent and insightful input, Meaghan. Folks on both sides of the argument – or any other argument – would do themselves proud to look at the level of integrity that you display.

      I am half way through a response to your first comment, but I’m running out of steam BIG TIME. Sleepy is taking over. Will finish my thoughts when I can actually think straight.

      Come back at me if I don’t respond in a timely manner!

  50. The disillusionment with religion is nothing new, we’ve had it in Christendom since the time of Montaigne and Voltaire. Western Civilization has been in decline since their ideas took hold socially in the French Revolution. Atheists all follow a moral code that suits them. The atheist regimes such as Stalin’s, Hitler’s and Mao’s ALL followed a moral code that suited them. Yes, those are extreme examples, but they are not theoretical, they happened and millions have paid the ultimate price. So why aren’t people becoming disillusioned with secular, atheistic governments? You guys have good publiscists.

    • Yes, this disillusion isn’t new, but it’s being talked about more and it’s become more accepted to be nonreligious. I think in a way we can attribute this to the internet. And why do you say Western Civilization has been in decline since Voltaire and Montaigne? And is it directly caused by their ideas? I feel that that is much too broad of a suggestion, but I’m sure that wasn’t your meaning. And yes, those regimes considered themselves nonreligious and ruined lives, but I don’t feel you can attribute their crimes to their religious beliefs. Some scholars even think Nazism was a sort of ‘political religion’, centered around their furher. I think in this case the problem is the government and the power system, not the lack of religion.

      And I disagree that we have good publicists! I said people are disillusioned with the religious, church side of god, not god him/herself. People aren’t becoming more atheistic, I don’t think, just less involved with church. I see this in America and Europe; I can’t say the same for the rest of the world. Atheists still have one hell of a bad rep in the States. The word ‘atheist’ scares people (at least where I live) just as much as the word ‘socialist’ does. Believing in a god is still the norm, whether or not the believer still goes to a church.

      • God is who He revealed himself to be. Most people choose not to believe in Him. They rather choose to be a non-believer, an ideologue or in their own idea about Him, rather than the Real God.

  51. What I think is that just because you don’t believe in God doesn’t mean your safe or that you hit the magical bottom that makes you free from judgement. You will get judged no matter what you believe in. God and his son Jesus Christ gave us the way to salvation. Most atheist I meet are Earthly they only worry about themselves and live in emotion. They make many mistakes and never learn from them. Ether you are a Son of God or a Son of Satan.The reason I choose to believe(In Christ and the Lord) was that God made the BIGGEST Sacrifice that NO ONE HAS BEEN ABLE TO MAKE. He gave his Only Son for all of us. Tell me that anyone would make that sacrifice for anyone of us? Without any selfish gains. You want to know what I found out when I converted to Christianity is how people are Hypocrites(And I don’t intend to offend any followers or people who deem to be “Clean and never do nothing bad”) and how much we need the Lord in our lives. With the Lord I have everything that I need and theirs nothing this world can offer me that Christ hasn’t given me. That’s is what I believe in and no one can change my mind. That in Christ everything is Right and Just. God Bless you all.

  52. Im not here for your amusement rat face. Sorry for treating you like a respectable human being, because youre not. No questions were directed at you dave but thanks for the imput…

    • This is my final response to your nonsense: You call me “rat face” and claim to treat me as a “respectable human being” in the SAME COMMENT. Too funny!

      Enjoy your Godless life and move on. By all means, have at it. Best wishes, seriously.

      • Apparently I realized my mistake in THAT comment!! Enjoy your “god” filled life as well. what ever floats your boat dude. I suppose you too.

  53. You realize Hitler was Christian, right?
    Get your goddamned facts right. Most of the founding fathers of your precious America were atheists and wanted a country where religious views were not discriminated against (VIEWS – THAT INCLUDES BELIEVING THAT GOD DOES NOT EXIST).
    Atheists ridicule Christianity because most Christians haven’t even read their own central text. Have you? It says that the world was made thousands of years ago, homosexuals should be condemned to death, people who work on Sundays should be condemned to death, the earth is flat (even though the people had already confirmed the earth was a globe by as late as 300 BC), you should take the virgin girls from villages your armies conquer and rape them, and other similar filth. Atheists ridicule Christians because they deny science to hold onto their beliefs.
    Hitler persecuted the Jewish people because he believed their religion was inferior to his and that his race was the master race. He was not atheist; he believed in God.
    The others you mention did not cause genocide because they were atheist.
    What about all of the terrible hate crimes of religious people? Care to mention them? You think that horrible crimes can be limited to one group? All groups have people in them that commit atrocities.

    • This is a comment that we would normally delete due to the profanities. However, I’ve chosen to leave it up because it’s a perfect example of what these people are. Sooner or later, it comes out. It’s hysterical that this individual ends up doing exactly what he’s wasted his time giving me grief for pointing out. Love it.

      Notice that the previous atheist called me “rat face” as well.

  54. Still, I think I’ll take this one.
    You realize Hitler was Christian, right?

    Yet he called himself a socialist and here’s a direct quote: “National Socialism and religion cannot exist together…. The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity’s illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity..”

    Get your goddamned facts right. Most of the founding fathers of your precious America were atheists and wanted a country where religious views were not discriminated against (VIEWS – THAT INCLUDES BELIEVING THAT GOD DOES NOT EXIST).

    Actually deism was quite popular but the only atheist in the bunch was Thomas Paine who still called himself a deist. Here’s what Ben franklin and Samuel Adams thought of Paine’s Age of Reason:
    http://www.teapartytribune.com/2011/06/17/did-the-founders-accept-the-age-of-reason/

    Atheists ridicule Christianity because most Christians haven’t even read their own central text. Have you? It says that the world was made thousands of years ago, homosexuals should be condemned to death, people who work on Sundays should be condemned to death, the earth is flat (even though the people had already confirmed the earth was a globe by as late as 300 BC),

    I’m not sure that the true age of the world makes any moral difference to anyone, Christians are merely asking for the same freedom that evolutionists are given, yet Christians are treated as second-class citizens in their own country. Homosexuals were granted mercy as were all sinners by Christ who asked only for repentance and turning to God. You have slapped away the merciful hand of Christ so you ought not be surprised when God raises up the scimitared hand of Ishmael against you. Apparently YOU have not read the text of Holy Writ as it nowhere says that the earth is flat. Nice stereotyping. Why don’t you do some homework and look up Pope Sylvester II, in fact there is a wonderful book titled The Abacus and the Cross that serves as a good biography.

    Atheists ridicule Christians because they deny science to hold onto their beliefs.

    Again read the book mentioned above: your “science” exists because of Christianity. Secularists have given us nothing but dictatorships and the atom bomb. Power that no Pope or Prince ever held, yet you think it is YOU who should fear US.

    Hitler persecuted the Jewish people because he believed their religion was inferior to his and that his race was the master race. He was not atheist; he believed in God.
    The others you mention did not cause genocide because they were atheist.
    What about all of the terrible hate crimes of religious people?

    Yes they did. It is no accident that the more totalitarian a regime is, the more atheistic it is. All regimes since the French Revolution start by persecuting the Church. The more theistic a person’s worldview is, the less they look to the State for solutions to their problems. It is no accident that the president who laments that “.. it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion…” is the sqme president who tries to socialize our economy and increase government power over honest hard-working religious folks whether it’s grabbing their guns or grabbing their buns at some airport. We’ll let the atheists give a loud “Yavolt!” to the Commander-in-Chief while prattling on about scary Christians. We believers will cling to our Scripture and our sense of justice.

    • “the more totalitarian a regime is, the more atheistic it is.”

      I find this both grossly offensive and untrue. The reign of the catholic church in the dark ages was surely totalitarian and the tool of religion was used to manipulate the people. As for the atheistic regimes of N. Korea, Pol Pot, Stalin etc, these dictators replace one form of dogmatism with another. They are not evil because they are godless but because they try to convince their people that they are gods.

      “your “science” exists because of Christianity. Secularists have given us nothing but dictatorships and the atom bomb. ”

      Secularism (the belief in separation of church and state) gave us democracy. Thomas Jefferson was a secularist (he’s the one who came up with the term ‘separation of church and state’) and he’s often credited as the forefather of democracy. There are literally thousands of other examples, but for the sake of brevity, I’ll stop there.

      I’m glad you were able to point out some of the fallacies in others’ arguments, but in doing so you made several of your own. Yes, this was a country founded by theists, many of whom were Christian. I am sorry if Christians feel attacked America, but I think that it is largely a backlash due to one of the central ideologies of many Christians: that Christians are right and everyone else is wrong. I am not suggesting a remedy, but merely pointing out the problem: The lack of respect for others’ religious beliefs.

      • “the more totalitarian a regime is, the more atheistic it is.”

        I find this both grossly offensive and untrue.

        Sorry that it offends you but it is true. Atheism is the core tenet for those that also believe that this world is the only one there is and therefore its up to them to run it properly here and now for the greater good of everyone whether they like it or not. Theists realize that while we can strive for justice, its an imperfect world with human beings of a fallen nature.
        While you try to claim that secularists merely want a separation between Church and State, the reality is that the State amasses more power to itself and uses it against religious folks. If you can give me one example of a secular state that practices self-restraint and does not amass power for itself, I’ll be impressed.
        If Jefferson is the forefather of democracy, there’s gonna be a lot of guys in ancient Greece who are gonna want some credit as well.

        The reign of the catholic church in the dark ages was surely totalitarian and the tool of religion was used to manipulate the people.

        First of all, the dark ages weren’t as dark as you seem to think. Second, the Catholic Church preserved what was left of Western Civilization after the Roman Empire crumbled under the weight of its own decadence. The preserved knowledge, gave us schools, kept society coherent, gave hope and compassion to the people who struggled for their daily sustenance. They increased our knowledge in all of the arts and sciences and did it all without creating any breach in their worldview between science and faith or between their Christian ethos and their public views.

      • I’m just going to keep the ‘well saids’ coming. AQ, email me by the way at the conclub email address. I don’t seem to have a good one for you. Thanks.

      • One of the most important goals of a totalitarian regime is to kill religion. You are incorrect in saying that communist, socialist, fascist or dictatorial nations replace one dogma with another. The belief in God is a belief in ultimate power & ultimate charity & ultimate HELP. The belief that men are nothing but mortals that God can squish at any moment of His choosing. The belief in GOD gives each man hope that the leaders in charge will ultimately be held accountable for their evil. That GOD will rescue them. The very act of prayer is sedition in that it begs for the destruction of the regime to a God powerful enough to do it. It is exactly this HOPE that is so dangerous to these regimes.

        The leaders of these regimes could care less if people regard them as gods. They know that without a BIG army and secret police, no one would ‘worship’ them! Obedience is the point. Power is the point. Hope is not allowed.

        It is in the socialist playbook to destroy religion as an essential tenet of revolution. Patriotism too. Unity as well. Seeing a pattern? I am.

  55. This article is a bit ridiculous I think. Look, there are people in this world. There are outspoken people and others who really don’t give a crap about any argument. At the end of the day most people on here are generalising either religious people or athiests. The article states the most athiests ridicule all christians. I have many friends who don’t even know about the argument of religion v athiests. They are athiests themselves and have not even thought about it. I also know christians who don’t argue. I can, however, understand people who do argue as many people have had religion shoved down their throat their whole life such as me. In a sense to, i think that religion has been shoved down everyones throat for the past couple of millenia. I think at the end of the day though, people are going to argue no matter what, from both sides. Unless we ALL become peaceful and understanding towards everyone and non judgemental. peace be with you all!!!!!

    • I have NEVER met an atheist who can’t just let other people believe in God. They always speak with hostility or anger. They are never at peace. They are always in reaction & rebellion. Example:

      “I can, however, understand people who do argue as many people have had religion shoved down their throat their whole life such as me. In a sense to, i think that religion has been shoved down everyones throat for the past couple of millenia.”

      Shoved? Really? Not sure how that can happen…

    • “Do you think I came to bring peace to earth? No! I can guarantee that I came to bring nothing but division.” Jesus: Luke 12:51

      Jesus knew people 100%. He knew that there would be no peace for people who believed in him. Atheists can not stop their bitterness and anger toward Christianity. Muslims, Buddhists, Pagans, Wiccans- it’s all good for atheists. The fact that atheists obsess about the Bible, Jesus and God says it all.

      The only true peace comes from full obedience to God himself. So, if you don’t mind, I will not accept the false peace you offer.

      This life is a choice- obey God or obey Satan. While there may be no earthly penalty, there sure will be an eternal one.

      Jesus said not to throw pearls to swine. I think I will do that. There are many others in need than those who actively stand against the Almighty God. Good luck with that…

  56. I’m pretty sure that since prayer has been forced out of school, abortion up to and including live birth is perfectly legal, gay rights laws are shutting down Catholic charities and socialized medicine has come to what was once a free country it is secular progressivism that is being shoved down our throats. Stop complaining about centuries pst and look at the abuses of today.

  57. The comments are hilarious. First, I would like to point out that the author lumps the “new atheists” with the left wing of the democratic party and portrays them as sympathetic to Islam. This is simply not true. The person you are probably thinking of is Bill Maher, but the “New Atheists,” most specifically Hitchens and Harris are actually very critical of Islam. Harris goes on to say that it’s the most dangerous religion in the world and is far more critical of it that Christianity. Hitchens voted for Bush II twice and is a staunch defender of the wars in Iraq. By these standards, Hitchens is actually pretty far right. Please get your facts straight before making sweeping accusations like this.

    To the commenters: I am an atheist and I have no desire to argue with you or convert you. I respect your right to believe whatever you want, so please, respect mine. I know many of you think its your duty to spread your religion and think you are doing a good thing by preaching to us, but many of us have heard these preachings before and have read the bible cover to cover. In fact, atheists score better than any other religious groups on tests of religious knowledge, so please spare us, we’ve heard it (http://pewforum.org/other-beliefs-and-practices/u-s-religious-knowledge-survey.aspx). Those of you attacking atheists are making broad generalizations about a group you don’t understand. I don’t understand what it’s like to be a theist because I’ve never been one, so please don’t patronize us and try to explain to us why we’re atheists.

    • I appreciate most of your comments. Interestingly, I’ve been vigorously attacked (by several atheists) for writing the article. They say I’m attacking atheism. The article does none of the kind.

      It DOES question why Christopher Hitchens and fools like Bill Maher gleefully attack religion with whatever hateful derisive comments that come to mind at the time. Why do they show such lack of respect for all things Christian – but scream bloody murder whenever they think (fear) that a Christian has attacked atheism in any way?

      You ask for tolerance – I agree, but why do New York atheists wet their pants over a street sign in a neighborhood honoring 911 heroes? Is that tolerance? Where are the “tolerant” atheists? Why have they not spoken out against the behavior of these people.

      The second point of the argument was this: Where are all of those docile atheists of whom Greg Epstein speaks? Where are high-profile atheists who speak of “respectful coexistence with believers” with believers? Of course there are atheists who respect religion, but do we only hear from the vile ones?

      Finally, you can find atheist threads on this article that start out fine but end up deriding, name-calling and ridiculing Christianity. Why is that?

      Perhaps many of us will have a different attitude when we hear tolerant voices rise above those who on wish to atack and ridicule.

      Congrats on the “religious knowledge” tests.

    • Listen, who the hell was trying to ‘convert’ you? When Jesus comes back, we will just be on the side lines, cringing, as you atheists are roasting in the pit.

      Jesus said, “don’t throw your pearls to swine”. Most of us adhere pretty strictly to that idea.

      • That right there is why Atheists ridicule Christianity.
        “we will just be on the side lines, cringing, as you atheists are roasting in the pit.”
        That is an awful, morbid thing to say and I don’t know how you sleep at night.

      • Listen, who the hell was trying to ‘convert’ you? When Jesus comes back, we will just be on the side lines, cringing, as you atheists are roasting in the pit.

        If you believe this, why exactly are you worshipping this sadist or calling him “good” again?

    • Amen, bro.

    • To which “persuasion” do atheists OVERWHELMINGLY subscribe?

      In a game of “pick ‘em,” which political party would a majority of Americans designate as “sympathetic to Islam?”

      Wise up. (or NOT.)

  58. Take a look at the comment section of this article and tell me how atheists are anything other than mere followers of their own hateful, spiteful religion (the worship of the self and creation instead of the Creator). Amazing how an article about how one Muslim killed another is quickly used to attack all religion and Christianity in particular.

  59. Whoever says Atheists are Hostile and vile is an idiot!
    We are nothing of the kind and if there are Atheists who “insult” christianity its either a joke or because they have been discriminated themselves by christians!
    Wouldn’t you be mad if someone nagged at you that “your going to hell” because of your beliefs!
    Christians act as if they have never done wrong in there life because its “against there beliefs” but christians, atheists, catholics, etc. murder, rape, steal, and lie.
    Wheres the article about christians ridiculing atheist?

  60. Whoever says Atheists are Hostile and vile is an idiot!
    We are nothing of the kind and if there are Atheists who “insult” christianity its either a joke or because they have been discriminated themselves by christians!
    Wouldn’t you be mad if someone nagged at you that “your going to hell” because of your beliefs!
    Christians act as if they have never done wrong in there life because its “against there beliefs” but christians, atheists, catholics, etc. murder, rape, steal, and lie.
    Wheres the article about christians ridiculing Atheists?
    You get what you give!

    • Why, oh, why would it bother an Atheist (um, there is no such thing, btw- just rebellious teenagers) if something thinks they are going to hell?

      “Whoever says Atheists are Hostile and vile is an idiot! We are nothing of the kind and if there are Atheists who “insult” christianity its either a joke or because they have been discriminated themselves by christians!”- you

      “You get what you give!”-you

      um…. which one is it?

    • Um, did you even see the main photo of this article? Just wondering…

  61. Im just hoping that you atheist will soon be converted to christianity and believe in the good news.

    • Unfortunately, Marvin, I gotta tell you not to hold your breath. Most of these folks are hardwired.

      • It is just so sad that you RW Christian extremists cannot recognize your own ridiculing of Atheists by holding to this view of superiority over them. This whole “chosen one”, “we are going to heaven, you will burn in hell” meme just gets so old, so sophomoric.

        Again, you have no knowledge that you are correct, Atheists have no knowledge that they are correct. We cannot know, this is a metaphysical argument that no human can “know” until they die.

  62. I am the son of god! Do you believe me? No but you believe someone’s writings from two thousand years ago that claim the same thing. I am going to bury some papers in my backyard and hopefully in a couple hundred years they get dug up and I have a religion named after me too.
    Why do Atheists ridicule Christianity? I have a very simple answer: Christianity is ridiculous.

  63. LOL….proof, as in repeatable, measurable observations…. empirical proof of god’s existence.

    If you argument is that Atheists cannot disprove his existence, then you have reached the correct answer……you both rely on faith. Therefore both the believer and the non-believer are at the same level, the score is tied.

    Sigh, if this is a double post, blame it on your sad blocking of posts

    • Empirical proof; repeatable measurable observations. Good.
      That would be a direct observation of nature vie the senses. We have much that calls itself science that doesn’t pass this test. Evolution comes quickly to mind. Mind, now that I think of it would be another unprovable assumption. So are such notions as justice and freedom.
      God transcends nature so when you stipulate that the proof has to be entirely natural, the dice is loaded in your favor.

      • I already said that this is a metaphysical argument that cannot be answered by those living, it is an impossible thing to know, still making the score zero to zero between the believers and non-believers.

        Both are in the same boat, both have to rely on their faith in the unknowable.

  64. Years ago, my uncle and I would argue about religion from time to time. (Unlike many of the hateful and ridiculing comments in this thread, he debated me with class – and no such silliness)

    Anyway – and this isn’t the appropriate logic for a Christian to use, (I was a smart-mouth college kid) – I explained the following to him:

    “Uncle Jim, here’s the deal; let’s pretend you’re right, and there is no God: we’re both in the same boat, aren’t we? However, if I’m right, you’re screwed!” (I believe I used a different verb. ;-))

    I’ll never forget the momentary deer-in-the-headlights look that came over him – before he rejoined the debate.

    Fun memories of a favorite uncle.

    • But….in the realm of possibilities, the vast number of just how it might be, the odds are not in your favor since it is an infinity to one chance.

      NVL

  65. I’m speaking to everyone here. God is a very loving God and He wants nothing but the best in our lives. Let me start by saying that God has set forth Laws of His own that He wants us to follow in our daily lives. These are the Ten Commandments. Now to go further…you can see the Ten Commandments as judging laws, in how God will punish or reward us on how we live our lives. I can ask you “Would you consider yourself to be a good person?” and if you tell me you think yes you are a good person, the Commandments humble each person’s mind. I can ask “Have you kept the Ten Commandments?” Some will say no, others may say yes. I can then go through each one like asking “Have you ever lied? Have you ever stolen anything? Have you committed adultery? Have you used the Lord’s name in vain? Have you ever murdered anyone?Have you ever lusted after another person? ( Lust, in God’s eyes, is the same as looking at another person and thinking you want to have more like sex or more with that person)” God told us whoever breaks His Commandments will have their part in the Lake of Fire (Hell). To God, a lie is as bad as a murder. Most people can say they have lied, or stolen, or lusted after someone before. So in that, they are a lying, thieving, adulterer at heart. Now before God on Judgment Day, would you be innocent or guilty? Most would say innocent because they think God would never send them to Hell for such silly things, only because they haven’t done anything worse like murdering someone. But God is a just God, which means he must uphold justice on each individual, just like a judge does in a court of law. Let’s imagine you are in a court room guilty of a serious crime, and you have a $10,000 fine against you and you are gonna be guilty for your crime. But you say “Judge, I know I am guilty but it has been a long time since I did these things, please forgive me.” The judge won’t just ignore your crime, he is gonna make sure that justice is served and will punish you no matter what. God’s standards are much higher than man’s are. However, if someone pays that fine, you can be set free right? Yes, once someone has paid for your crime, you are free. In the same way with God, we are all guilty before God no matter what, and we won’t simpy let us go by us simply saying “I’m sorry”, or course we should be sorry. But God has provided us a way for us to be paid for our crime (sin). God loves you so much that He gave His only son to suffer and die in the place of your sins right here on Earth, so that you could live. It’s this simple: you broke God’s Laws, and Jesus paid your fine. God wants us to turn away from our sin and repent of our sins and place our trust in our Saviour Jesus Christ! God will forgive you and grant you everylasting life, and make you a new person from the inside out in Christ. That is the Good News :)

  66. This article and others of the like are garbage. You say you don’t mean to pass judgement, but when you made the article what did you think you were doing? I wonder. The thing you have to realize is that not every atheist is like ‘A’, and not every religious person is like ‘B’. This article is of no concern for you to have written, you are writing about group B(you are apart of) explaining the actions of group A(atheist’s), It is monumentally biased This is synonymous with me writing the article “Why all Christians are Inane”.(From the viewing of an Atheist)
    -”The left never seems to miss an opportunity to point out the latest goofy statements or antics by groups purporting to speak or act in the name of Christianity, while being quick to (often angrily) point out that Islamic Extremists don’t represent Islam as a whole.”
    And Christians never fail to point of the impossibility of an atheist having any morals, this is simply untrue.
    -”My faith teaches me not to judge others; God will handle that. (Don’t misconstrue this to mean that I don’t criticize and “pass judgement” on the political beliefs of others, which I do with gusto.)”
    Paraphrase: ‘I will not pass judgement about someone’s personality, but allow me to pick out a specific personality trait to judge,’
    -”There’s nothing like a passive-aggressive atheist”
    This is my favorite quote, I love how you have failed to regard a person specifically by their personality, but by a broad generalization.
    -Well-known atheist Christopher Hitchens, for example, says that religion “should be treated with ridicule, hatred, and contempt.” Hitchens is quick to point out of course that Christians themselves should not be treated this way; it’s Christianity, which is somewhat akin to supporting the troops but not the war. (Although most anti-war folks I know don’t ridicule, deride or show disgust for the troops.)
    I will say here I am very happy you did not say that anti-war idealists ridicule the troops in particular. But what I will say is, the Westboro Baptist Church, show disgust for the troops, homosexuals, and unbelievable contempt for the beliefs of others, can I now say that all Christians act in this way because of the select sample-group of followers believe this?

    After reading this(if you even care) I’m sure you can ask “how can someone say you shouldn’t judge someone by their beliefs in general, but by the entirety of their personality” and it’s to show you the offensive tone of a broad generalization in a negative tone. I’m am aware of the hypocrisy of my reply, but I hope you can see the point I which to bring around,
    I will leave with a sarcastic remark

    -Your neighborhood passive-aggressive atheist.

  67. I have an error,
    “This article is of no concern for you to have written, you are writing about group B(you are apart of) explaining”…
    should be
    “This article is of no concern for you to have writeen, you are writing about group A when you are apart of group B”
    You have no insight to the true perspective of an atheist, or any person.

    • Ah, another angry, guilt-riddled atheist comes out of the woodwork.

      I’ll write ONE response, which I normally would not do, based on the idiocy of your comments, but you’ve just made a bunch of foolish comments, and we musn’t let our readers miss out on the fun.

      “This article and others of the like are garbage”

      Which part – my opinions or the direct quotes from your boys, Bill Maher and Christopher Hitchens? My, how the left heads for the gutter when it reads opinions which differ from its own, eh?

      “The thing you have to realize is that not every atheist is like ‘A’, and not every religious person is like ‘B’.”

      Did you even read the article? I said nothing of the sort; in fact, to the contrary, I pointed out the “humanist” efforts of Greg Epstein. Perhaps a re-read is in order.

      “It is monumentally biased”

      No kidding? Wow. It’s a POLITICAL BLOG – it’s what they do. Pretty hard to bias DIRECT QUOTES, such as those by Christopher Hitchens, isn’t it? Not much left for interpretation there, is there?

      “And Christians never fail to point of the impossibility of an atheist having any morals”

      Looks like we’re getting to one of the root causes of you hostility; although the article says ZERO about the morality of atheists.

      “Paraphrase: ‘I will not pass judgement about someone’s personality, but allow me to pick out a specific personality trait to judge,’”

      This one’s too funny! Did you even process the part of the comment in parentheses? (Don’t misconstrue this to mean that I don’t criticize and “pass judgement” on the POLITICAL BELIEFS of others, which I do with gusto) Again, I said ZERO about atheistic PERSONALITY TRAITS. Political beliefs are not personality traits.

      “This is my favorite quote, I love how you have failed to regard a person specifically by their personality, but by a broad generalization”

      Not even sure what you’re trying to say here, but you still seem to be confusing political philosophies and beliefs with personality. Good grief.

      As for the Westboro Baptist church, they are to Christianity what Muslim Extremists are to Islam ; they are despicable – nothing less, nothing more.

      “Can I now say that all Christians act in this way because of the select sample-group of followers believe this?”

      Once again, I did NOT say ALL atheists act ANY way. This mutually-inclusive (or exclusive) stuff is really giving you trouble, isn’t it?

      “how can someone say you shouldn’t judge someone by their beliefs in general, but by the entirety of their personality” and it’s to show you the offensive tone of a broad generalization in a negative tone.”

      Here’s the deal: This whole “judging” and “personality” thing you keep referring to is ridiculous (note that I didn’t say “garbage.”) because the article contains nothing of the sort.

      As opposed to “broad generalizations,” I pointed out specific people and their comments – including those of Epstein, who appears to be fighting an uphill battle with the “New Atheists” over the heart and soul of the atheist religion. (Yes, atheist RELIGION.)

      It’s humorous that you accuse me of using an “offensive tone of a broad generalization in a negative tone,” (which again, is ridiculous) yet you say nothing of the only example of such in the article that is guilty of the charge: the comments of Christopher Hitchens. Once again, you (along with countless others) have only reinforced the premise of the article.

  68. Not all Atheist’s live to ridicule Christian’s. Many of us are very tolerant of other religions and views. What most people see or hear about are the typical extremists that live to rag on others. Every religion has them. And I can’t count the number of times that I’ve been ridiculed by a “good christian” because I don’t believe in “God”. I believe that we are what we are, and that all of us have a right to believe in what we want to, and no one has the right to tell us otherwise. Does it make me a bad person, just because I don’t believe in “God”? … I don’t think so… Does it give me a right to ridicule Christians? … Hell no…

    • I appreciate your well-said comments, Leslie. I have friends who are atheists, as well as a brother-in-law. I too, know in-your-face Christians who try to guilt people into believing in God. Just as the Christoper Hitchens and Bill Maher types don’t represent you – they don’t represent “us.”

      If you’ve read through many of the responses I’ve received to this article, you’ve seen that unfortunately, it doesn’t take much to bring out the hatred, bitterness, and ridicule in more than a few of your fellow-atheists. (Most of whom end up making the precise case of which I wrote.)

      Tolerance is a good thing, as I mentioned in the article regarding Greg Epstein’s thoughts. The puzzling part to me will always be why the intolerant among us expect anything different in return.

      • Probably one of the best articles and threads we have had here for some time. It’s a gift that keeps on giving. It hits the nail on the head as the new atheists of this age have come out swinging. They are not just content to not believe in the Creator of the Universe, but intent on mocking and vilifying all those who worship a higher power, and especially those who worship the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Atheists in the public square have no sense of tolerance for people of Faith and we see daily in the news attacks on Christians and religious people of all stripes as well as our traditions, rituals, morals and values. This article hits a nerve and we have seen that unfold here in the comments section now for months.

        We are not a body with a spirit, but instead every man is an eternal spirit that has a temporary body. As Christians we understand our time here is but temporary, and that we do not die when the body has died and become corruption. We all have a choice on this earth. To spend eternity in the presence of God, or to spend eternity seperated from God. Every man makes that choice. You can reject God and his ‘rules’ for your life, or you can reject Him and try to go it alone. I have met very few true atheists in my life. Most will, in the end, admit they know He exists but just are mad at him, or don’t want to live by His rules, or in fact worship a different God whether it be man himself, or the creation instead of the Creator, or science, or ‘logic, or the self. We all worship something or someone whether we admit it or not. I choose to worship the One who created science, and creation, and the universe, and logic, and the intellect. In the end, every knee will bow and tongue confess… whether in this life for the next.

  69. hello everyone, I stumbled across this article thingy on facebook and got lost in reading allthe comments from angry athiests and christians alike (some seemed pretty confusing). Just wondered why a fair few of the people who posted think athiests ridicule christians. Not once have I seen somebody say ‘Ha your christian, god is a lie. wating time blah blah blah.’ and purely because I’m interested when were these groups of athiests going round killing christians because of their belief. (I’m not trying to argue I am acctually interested because I’ve never heard it and I do want to know :)

  70. oh and i just read the rats comment about their uncle, and it made my day :’) (in a good way)

  71. atheism and anti-theism are two different things. Atheism is the lack of a belief in a god. Anti-Theism is the belief that all religion should be abolished.

  72. I dont have a problem with religion, unless they speak up about it.

    Treaty of Tripoli – June 7th 1797! – The US is by no means founded on christianity.
    I can understand this. Our founding fathers were lawyers and scientists. Most were atheists.

    I don’t know where the people screwed up in letting this make believe fables have so much control. But I intend to do the best that I can to fix this, by voice or by force.

  73. HAH Christians using “Logic” What a classic. More like What the priest tells you.
    I Have one problem with Christians… Because they don’t believe life ends… even after you die… they do not value life as much as they should. Therefore I do not trust them in a hostile position. They think if they kill me I’d just go to hell and it would be a good thing, And that’s extremely ignorant basing life worth from a fiction novel written in the stone age…

    • Well, Christians don’t think that way, so your entire comment is fairly ignorant. Part of the Faith is to value the sanctity of all innocent life, it is a gift from God and therefore greatly respected.

    • This is a response to the MORON who commented previously to Dave:

      If you reread your pathetic response by chance, do you now realize how ridiculous your illogical “logic” is?

    • Christians using logic IS in fact a Classic: try the Summa Theologica sometime. Refute it if you can.
      As for Christians vs. Atheists in a hostile position; your atheistic left-wing regimes have killed more people in the twentieth century than all of the religious wars combined. Do the math.

  74. AHAHAHAHA no Atheism and Anti-theism are not different things… Atheism is the same word but has been passed down through generations and gradually shortened to Atheism instead of Anti-theism.

  75. I’d like to simply ask, as a person who has been an Atheist since I could make a choice on the matter… (After my family was removed from an apartment building after as a child I said the reason why we don’t head to church with everyone else on Sunday).

    Why?

    I mean, multiple religions, etc etc

    Why is your’s right?

    I mean… The homosexual community has been harassed and mistreated, they are human beings also… And while I hate to pull the “science says so” card I mean there is sufficient evidence to suggest this. It isn’t something we take from the community itself.

    The fact that the scriptures have changed so much over the past “X” amount of years.

    As I have a large amount of respect for Richard Dawkins, I must say his Flying Spaghetti Argument hit home with me. One of the reasons why I have never considered even being religious, not for the fact that I “hate” it. I just disagree with MANY of the “items” (can you call it that) being preached there.

    I’m a teenager in High School, I don’t have infinite knowledge on these topics, I know enough to make a decision based upon a family that didn’t influence me in any way.

    Sorry if I came off as insulting, trying to not harshly snap back at some of the ridiculous atheists and theist posts.

    • Seastory Anonymous,

      It appears that your ‘choice’ to be an atheist is merely an angry response to bad things that happened to you. Clearly, you blame God for those events and so are turning your back on Him. But your ‘choice’, as it is based on anger, can not be a valid one. You need to think your way through life. You are young. You need to open your mind. You can attempt to use ‘science’ (faulty science, by the way- and I’ll wager you don’t even know what that ‘science’ says and are just parroting popular opinions among your peer group) all you want, but every human is born with an innate knowledge of God. You know it. Don’t allow evil people or events to steal your happiness in life. There is a HUGE move afoot to separate young people from God. The news, liberal politics (always considered more ‘cool’ to young people), T.V. programs and news are all owned by the same people- Progressives who want nothing more than for you to be a bitter, ticked off atheist without hope. Be the captain of your own destiny. Read the Bible and see the love and wisdom of God there. Read the news and do your own research. Don’t be a mere pawn in someone else’s game. If you do these things, I promise you that you will save yourself from a life of misery. Only bitterness can come from the path you are on. Trust in God and Jesus as the only way forward. To knowledge, to happiness and to life. I will say a prayer for you out there…

    • “I mean, multiple religions, etc etc

      Why is your’s right? ”

      Do you hold that same standard for political systems? I mean, there are so many Different political systems, whose to say the one you subscribe to is right?

      Or how about science? There are so many different hypotheses for any given topic, how can you know ANY of them are right?

  76. athiest who go to extreme levels are weird and no we dont very much like Christians for years they have killed people who did not belive in their god destroy whole civilizations because of their god and have been one of the major parts most over human exsits because of their god and if their was a god then why would he let people like Hitler almost eradicate the jewish population and let people like him bring pain and sufforing to those people who are starving to death and fighting wars with people of their own kind. so that is why we despise the christian faith because that religion seems to bring alot of murder,war,and problems to are world.

    • Again we have Christian faith vs. Atheistic States. Hitler was a Socialist. Socialists like Communists and virtually ALL leftist political activists have turned away from God. God gives us free will, otherwise, we’d be robots. Contained within free will is the ability to do good, act with self-restraint and to behave in a more noble manner. When one turns away from God, these things seem to eventually disappear as well. Hitler killed almost 11 million people, Half of which were Jews. There were Christians killed by Hitler as well, we just don’t have the same PR that the Chosen folk do. Stalin another left-wing atheist killed 40 million people, Mao, 50 million. Do you sense a pattern yet?
      My guess is probably not, which is why a lot of #occupiers still think socialism is a pretty neat idea.

  77. To all our atheist ‘friends’. Always remember that in this country you have Freedom OF Religion, not Freedom FROM Religion. The war atheism is waging on anyone who dares make a peep about Christianity is in direct contradiction to that fundamental concept.

    • Of course, the religion of atheism must be preserved, protected and pronounced as often – and as loudly – as possible. Go figure.

    • “If I wanted to give you my opinion, I would say that almost all Christians are close-minded and judgemental in fear of dying because they can’t face the facts.”

      This IS your “opinion,” and guess what? It proves how clearly out of touch you are with “almost all” Christians; this is laughable in it’s stereotypical naivete. Wow.

      I assume I’m the “jerk” of whom you speak, since I’m the author of the article. I’ve been called everything under the sun for all kinds of reasons. BUT…this is the first time it’s happened as a result of me quoting – verbatim – atheists. Outstanding.

      Thanks for once again proving my point.

  78. I’m agnostic. I am an honest, hard working US Citizen, married with children. I do not judge others for their beliefs as I have MANY christian friends, however, religion is something that does not fit my belief system. Does that make me wrong? Is anyone wrong for what they believe? We will find out in the end, but to each his own. You cannot force religion onto anyone. You can teach, and hope that people will follow. Unfortunately there are people in all aspects of life, christian, muslim, atheism, etc, who are extremists; so to single out one form of belief is not fair. What about the so called christian protesters outside Soldier funerals? Thanking ‘God’ for dead soldiers? I could name a hundred people who have taken religion too far. You do not kill, not only is that in your moral fiber, but also in your bible. What about the Crusades? Was that Christian too? How do you kill people and force your religion on someone who was completely content without it? There is so much contradiction in religion I don’t even know where to begin. So I will continue to be a loyal citizen to my country, a loyal and loving wife and mother, and enjoy my happiness devoting myself to a cause that I am content with.-peace :)

  79. I simply couldn’t leave your site before suggesting that I extremely enjoyed the standard information a person provide for your guests? Is gonna be back frequently to check out new posts

  80. What’s wrong with being a free thinker,and not always running with the crowd,it seems to me that a lot of religious people, must convert every one to their relm of thinking,maybe it’s fear of the unknow. is it just me,or is there a lot of left handed people that are atheists?????

  81. “My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how has I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. Consequently, atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that is has no meaning.” –C.S. Lewis

    The quote above is from the most intelligently-articulate atheist in the history of mankind, who, partly by way of human logic, became a proficient advocate of Christ.

    Atheists have too much faith to exist without it.

  82. Speaking as an agnostic, not an atheist, I don’t know if mankind would be better off without religion. So much harm has been done in the name of religion. My respect for various religions, denominations and sects is highest for those who are most willing to accept people of different faiths, nationalities, color, sexual orientation, et cetera.

    • Exactly. The world does need faith. Faith is like a second chance for criminals, for people who have been abuse. But the people who think every thing is “for sure” are the ones who are the most scared so they hurt people. I am an atheist but not a “for sure” atheist, so I guess I am agnostic. I don’t know, I still am learning about myself. But my point is is that you are very right. We do need religion. But this article is hurtful and judgemental.

      • This article is none-of-the-kind; it correctly points to the bitterness and anger of the two atheists (accurately quoted in the post) I profiled. I also discussed – accurately as well – the efforts of Greg Epstein, with whom I agree – as it related to the approach he believes atheists should take toward Christianity.

        How ironic is it for an atheist to read the article; and come away remembering how “hurtful and judgmental” the Christian author was – vs. the truly hateful and ridiculing condescension of Christopher Hitchens of which he wrote.

        My oh my.

  83. Okay, class. Repeat after me. A “definition” is an explanation of a word…

    If Christianity (or indeed any “religion” or even “atheism”) did not have a doctrine, it would cease to be what it claims, and become something else. By the most basic definition, a Christian is not a Buddhist. Neither, by the way, is someone who calls down “fire” from the sky in a cult ceremony or thinks dead soldiers are to be disrespected…I don’t care what they claim. We (who follow our Lord as His only true Orthodox Church) denounce that free-wheeling Protestant nonsense, just as we denounced the pope back in the 10th century and the crusades and communism.

    Why is it that everyone is so afraid of calling a thing what it is? Christians are ridiculed for having a stance against homosexuality, for example, which goes against its very teaching. But…none of those same critics would dare to call a plane “intolerant” because it is not a car and/or try to convince the plane that it is or should try to become a car.

    Christ has conviction. That, quite frankly, is what is so threatening to those who have none.

  84. Wait one minute. Yeah, Bill Mahr is a jerk. I don’t like him because he is just as bad as some Christians because he is so closeminded. But the fact that you jump to such mean conclusions about Atheists make you just that bad. Bill Mahr doesn’t respect other’s religions. That is why I don’t like him(though he is funny). And you guys are just as mean and judjemental as he is. Don’t you dare jump to conclusions because, yeah, some Atheists are jerks. I’m an atheist because(in my mind) it sounds more logical then a magical being in the sky. But I do think that maybe, just maybe, you are right. Maybe there is a heaven and a hell (which I would burn in for eternity), or maybe there will be reincarnation, or maybe there isn’t a god. I’m willing to say that nobody know anything for sure. But you guys, out of fear, beleive in a “for sure”. That is why I am an Atheist.

  85. Grace Miller, I’d go to whomever educated you and demand your money back. They sold you a stale version of skepticism leaving you utterly unarmed intellectually: “no one can know for sure.” And I assume you think this often, “who am I to know.”. Do you wonder if you even exist?

  86. A new adage: Be careful what you post, for it might become a career…

    The resolute Rat should either be bronzed for admiring display or burned at the stake. This must be a record! (I’m registering envy)

    And after all that, religious folk and atheists are still equally people of faith and in both groups, some are tolerant and some aren’t.

    But in matters political, the religious believe that God’s pronouncements trump the governments’ wishes and no non-believing governor will accept that unwarranted (to him) interference with his power.

    We should in fairness, note that such resentment of religion is not limited to atheists…it affects competing religions for the same reasons and just as much, though it seems less present in Jews, by my limited, personal, non-scientific observation.

    • “A new adage: Be careful what you post, for it might become a career…”

      No kidding. The funny part, (and I do mean hysterical) is that they just keep proving the point, don’t they? My faves are the ones who start out all civil and stuff, only to end up calling me names, referring to “your precious little religion” and whatever. Cracks me up EVERY TIME.

      Do you ‘spose they’d keep behaving in such a manner if they knew their vitriol had the OPPOSITE effect on me of its intent? Too funny.

      Damn, I love blogging. ;-)

  87. atheists like me do not ….some of my best friends are Baptist and Christians as-well as my family….as long as they dont try to push their religion down my throat were cool and im only 12 i’ve mad the choice to be a atheist by my own meens whilst others are following a trend im ridiculed and hated on by many people but i dont cave in and break i stand up for what i believe in and i feel sorry for all who wasted their lives worrying and meeting up to standards for a fictional creation….the devil is like a boogey man and god or jesus are super heros so childish when u think about it

  88. The problem with this post is that is simply confuses religion with politics. Sure our society is adept to cross-mingle these two topics continuously, but just how Christians do not like to be place a single box of belief, atheists do not wish to be place in the same box of non-believers. As an atheist, there are too many things to count that I disagree with Bill Maher on. The simple fact is there is not a ordained leader to atheism, because there is NO Belief to lead. Atheist who are “out of the closet” do so because they can and there is someone who does or wants to listen to them.

    There is no neat little box to place right & left, Christian and Muslim, gay or straight, belief and unbelief. This is one of the reasons there is so much conflict between people with different points of view. Instead of speaking from a clear and concise point-of-view we choose to muddy the water and create right and wrong; divisiveness and conflict.

    The only time I find myself at conflict with religion is when I disagree with someones personal opinion or it impedes my human and constitutional rights. Just like any author, speaker, journalist, or leader who communicate to the masses, you should do not so frivolously but with great responsibility.

    • “The problem with this post is that is [sic] simply confuses religion with politics.”

      It does none of the kind; I considered responding to the remainder of your comment, but your initial dopey sentence convinced me not to waste my time.

      Perhaps others will banter with you; I will not. Thanks for playing, though.

  89. “yet many of them are quick to (angrily) point out that Islamic Extremists don’t represent Islam as a whole. Why the hypocrisy? ”

    That’s unfortunate. As a non-American atheist, my opinion is that Islam is much, MUCH more dangerous and ridiculous than Christianity.

  90. Thank you for having the insight – and courage – to say as much.

  91. I’m an atheist, and here is my response:

    I can’t help but ridicule religion. The whole idea of a sky wizard who cares the slightest bit what humans are doing is just ridiculous to me. Oh sure, I went through a religious phase in high school, and in college I started studying the bible. Here’s where I ran into a hiccup- Anyone who studies the bible as a historical book, not as some sort of “magic,” that is being honest and is doing quality research, could never in a million years believe it.

    Christianity gets attacked most often in America, because it’s what we are faced with daily. It gets attacked, because we are constantly bombarded with it. It creeps into our schools, into our laws, and into our government. It’s printed on our money, it’s in our pledge. Notice, it is not in our constitution, and yet we constantly have to hear that we live in a “Christian Nation.” For me, this is insulting..because that’s the exact opposite of what America is. America exists, because a group of people wanted to be free of religious tyranny in the government.

    I am absolutely not against people to have the right to practice Christianity, until it starts affecting others. I could care less what religion people choose, people can go home at night and worship their couch if they like. But they don’t need to do it at school. They don’t need to hold on to ridiculous ancient laws because of something in a storybook. And there is no room for basing our laws and society around one particular fairy tale.

    I also think it’s unfair to tell a child who is still gullible enough to believe in the Easter Bunny, that they will burn for eternity if they don’t believe in this god, even though which god you choose depends 99% on the country and time period you were born in.

    I am surrounded by a family and friends who are atheists. We aren’t unhappy. I’m happily married to the love of my life. I’m a schoolteacher in the bible belt, and I love my job. Although I do cringe at the hate that spews from some children’s mouths based on their parents beliefs. No 8 year old should have an opinion on gay marriage. Or not want to be friends with someone because they don’t believe in god.

    I personally despise all religions equally, because they are all equally harmful and absurd. But I have never once had a Muslim knock on my door trying to tell me “some good news” at 8 in the morning.

  92. Why do you jump to conclusions about Atheists. I’m an atheist but I believe that anyone could be right, so I guess that makes me agnostic. Anyways, I call myself an athiest because I’m pretty sure there is no god. I think that it’s more logical to believe there is no god, but I’ll admit that we don’t know shit.
    Soryy, my point is that you shouldn’t jump to conclusions. You think we’re bad because we joke around. We share our opinion with eachothre. Mahr isn’t a very nice person. Do you want to know why? I Because he judges other people’s religions. He jumps to false conclusions. A Bit like you. I know you think I’m going to hell, but that doesn’t mean that I’m not also a human being. We aren’t horrible people. We are good people. So please stop judging.

  93. Nah, they prefer to fly planes into buildings at 8:00 in the morning to share their “good news.”

    Normally – when I’m so inclined – I’m happy to point out that atheists can no more prove their religion than can Christians. This time not so much; however, your bitter condescension – while not refreshing – is humorous. (and yes – words like “despise” indicate bitterness.)

    Merry Christmas!

  94. Did you even read the article?

    I have neither jumped to conclusions, nor lumped all atheists into a single group. (Reread my comments on the recently-departed Christopher Hitchens vs. those on Grep Epstein if that will help you understand the post.)

    I also said nothing about anyone being a “horrible person.” As to your laughable charge of “judging,” I actually said in the post that it is not up to me judge anyone.)

    Thanks for playing, though. Merry Christmas!

  95. New Atheists are just Atheists who believe in scientific method and skeptical approached to reasoning. You can ever see Richard Dawkins saying he can’t say he’s 100% sure there is no God, because there is no definite proof with our current progression of science. I, being an Atheist, also think that you’ve jumped a little in the article. Hitchens saying hate religion, not religious people is the same rationality that comes with defending Muslims in the face of extremists. Religulous, The Invention of Lying, The God Delusion, God is Not Great, The End of Faith, these are all attacking religion, not religious peoples. And Atheism being the “mainstream” is a big jump. There have been MUCH more successes coming from a religious point of view than nonreligious. Granted, it is being more allowed to be atheist and much more things have recently been coming out in support of atheism. (Now for my little allotted joke as a retort) For example, pick up a science book. Those are full of things that support Atheism.

  96. I ridicule Christianity and religion in general because it is like a bad joke that causes war, hate and ignorance.

  97. Hello Rat and Happy new year. Being a Christian I understand that God has given all of us free will. All the facts and information are available for anyone to choose what they want to believe in, or do not want to believe. A person can choose not to believe, and still live a life that does no harm to anyone. Any thing bad or evil in this world is not caused by The Father or His Son, but by people. People hate, cause wars, murder, rape and plunder.
    God is so loving, that He allowed His Son to be murdered for our sins, that we all would have a chance to one day live together in peace. I see no hate in that message.

    p.s. Rat, I have been posting some pretty tasty recipes at my place, I have been working on the premises that food and politics go hand in hand!
    http://wp.me/p1M1I6-Qc

  98. i think atheists have the right to hate Christianity for holding back humanity by 1000 years. you also spoke of ‘christian behavior’, God teaches in the bible morals such as ‘if a woman is rapped by a man, stone her to death’ now you will argue that was thousands of years ago everything has changed since then but the bible also states that god is forever he is the same now as 1000 years ago and will be the same in 1000 years

  99. why can’t this article be posted on facebook? a tab problem keeps coming up. thanks if this can be corrected. great article!!!

    • I cross-posted it to facebook when I wrote it. It looks like it’s been posted an additional 220 times by others. Just checked it; works fine on our end – not sure what isn’t working for you – sorry.

      Thanks for your feedback on the article!

  100. Agnostics are closet atheists who try to mock Christians whenever they see the opportunity? Ridiculous. I openly mock atheists when they make fun of Christians. I consider calling me an atheist a grave insult; I don’t call you a closet Muslim either, now do I?

    Here’s a hint: if you don’t want someone to mock your faith, don’t mock mine. Douche.

  101. Small lesson..
    Chromatic = With color
    Achromatic = Lack of color

    As

    Gnosticism = What you know
    Agnosticism = What you don’t know

    And

    Theism = belief in a “Higher Power”, i.e. Deity/God
    Atheism = Lack of belief in a “Higher Power”

    “Higher Power” here meaning whatever you believe it to be.

  102. Hi, Neat post. There is a problem with your web site in web explorer, would check this? IE still is the marketplace chief and a huge portion of folks will leave out your excellent writing due to this problem.

  103. i think theists are stupid and uneducated. no one intelligent and educated can believe in god for serious

    • Interestingly enough, I would consider the way you structured that entire statement to be “stupid” and “uneducated”. Please learn how to properly convey your messages via text, before trying to claim that others are ignorant, lmao.

  104. Many religious people believe that ‘not believing in God’ is identical to ‘rejecting God’ which ultimately it is not. I am not rejecting the teachings of God, I am rejecting the premise of God. How can I reject the teachings of something that I don’t believe exists. So you saying that “you don’t judge atheists, God does” to an atheist sounds to an atheist like “I don’t judge you, but a figment of my imagination judges you”. Just pointing out an atheist point of view, do with it as you will.

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